Certification or Degree

some people are very book smart but lack any practical working knowlege. The hiring people must have seen that.

 

The difference is: the bachelors is an indicator of an education, the certificate is an indicator of training. A properly educated person can train himself and the certificate becomes necessary only to satisfy a 'check the box' situation.

 

Sad but typical of organisations that view people as a tool and not an investment.

 

It depends on what you're going to do. For my job, certs don't matter. No one would care if you were Cisco certified (unless you were doing something specifically with Cisco hardware). You can't even apply for the job I have without a degree. I would say focus on the degree first and then get the certs.

Degrees are more general and can apply towards more openings. Certs are more specific. Also, as some have said, certs are only good for a short time and can quickly become outdated (many require you to recertify after 2-3 years). A bachelors will follow you for the rest of your life. Focus on the degree first and make sure it's from a recognized university (no tech schools).

You can get certs in a relatively short time. Another downside with certs is that there are a lot of places that are cert mills. They pump out tons of students whom you'll be competing with for jobs. I've known a couple MCSEs and A+ certified people who were doing simple jobs because they couldn't find work. A degree will make you stand out from the crowd.

Do you need a degree to make good money? No. Plenty of people do it, but it is harder. I've almost tripled my income since graduating, with no certs.

Also, certs probably won't help with your degree. As I mentioned above, they're very specific to a particular technology whereas degrees tend to be general and theoretical (e.g assembly language, data structures, etc). Unless you need them to advance in your job, I'd focus on the degree.

 

Depends on the job. I'm DoD as well, and you can't get into my position (computer scientist) without a degree. For a scientist position (computer scientist, engineer or mathematician), no cert is going to matter without a degree.

For example,
http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.a...=N&FedPub=Y&x=0&y=0&AVSDM=2010-08-17+09:30:00

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.a...=N&FedPub=Y&x=0&y=0&AVSDM=2010-08-12+00:03:00

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.a...=N&FedPub=Y&x=0&y=0&AVSDM=2010-08-09+00:09:00

 

work on your ba/bs if you can now. certs are much easier to get later, or even in conjunction. you're never sure what tomorrow holds regarding your ability to attend/pay for/etc college classes.... do it while you can. if there's certs you definitely need in the short term that will definitely help your short term career, try to weave them in.

 

IMHO, certs don't mean squat. They mean you passed an exam. What matters, is the interview, I will know quickly if you can code or troubleshoot or design apps or networks. I have worked with guys that have every cert out there and they wouldn't be able to work for me. If you have a BS then I would probably talk to you first. That tells me you work on long term goals, that you have some breadth of knowledge which adds to your well roundedness.

Regardless, if you truelly are good and smart, it really isn't going to matter that much except for getting in the door. Once you are in the door then it will be everything else that is going to matter.

 

No argument...and I think that makes my point and it's important that, as an applicant, one needs to consider what that can means. Such a company generally isn't interested in personnel development and such a position generally offers little opportunity for growth since, by definition, your education is so limited.

As technology changes (duhh...something that happens on a 16 month cycle in IT) your training rapidly becomes irrelevant unless you go back to school. Which itself can be hard since many companies offer enticing little traps like paid overtime that limits your ability to re-train. You're a tool to them, they don't care. There are others graduating right now that can do it so if you can't...well...bye!

Again: get a bachelors first, learn how to think in the abstract, on the theoretical level and how to track the technology changes as they are in development then keep yourself trained.

 

Good point, but in most larger companies you can't get through the HR resume review unless you have those boxes checked. Won't even get to the interview...

 

The OP's ultimate goal concerned programming, which is why I pointed out what I did. The IT portion was just an interim solution which he thought might contribute to the goal of getting a job later as a programmer.

 

I thought I'd provide my example even though OP has already decided....

I have an Associate of Applied Science degree in Computer Information Systems. I'm about 30 hours away from my BS in Information Networking and Telecommunication. I have very little experience--about 6 months of on-site service of dell computers.

I have applied for 4 jobs since the dell job; I have received 4 rejection letters.

I believe now, job-related experience is much more valuable than any piece of paper.

 

Never said a degree would. For IT, yes it's needed. For programming jobs or to ease a programming degree, no. DOD 8570 is only applicable to people who are Information Assurance Technicians or IA Managers.

 

I hear what you are saying but..
DoD 8570.01M (change 2 dtd 4/20/2010) identifies IAT (technical) & IAM (Managerial) workforce categories based on positions & functions with 3 levels in each category.

Pretty much anyone in DoD working a 2210 job is hit with this "workforce improvement program" based on priviledged access. If you are not, someone (IAM?) is taking a nap.

Not promoting certs, just saying there is required training especially in the DoD since that is where I work. They would help anyone who is trying to land a 2210 series job as a DoD contractor or work DoD.

With a tough job market I believe you really have to make yourself stand out above the rest and/or know someone on the inside. Its not like it was when I started in the industry circa 80s....
At least here in the North-Northeast. Maybe its a regional thing?

 

Just to be clear, I'm not down on certs. They definitely have their place. There's been a recent push out here for them as well. That said, making yourself stand out isn't just about having a bunch of stuff on your resume. It also has to be relevant. I'm a 1550. All I'm saying is that for a programming/software engineer position, they won't do anything.

When I look at a resume for a prospective software engineer, I don't even care about those certs because they mean nothing in terms of software engineering. They'll just be a block on your resume that no one cares about (again, for programming). A+ or Window 7 certs could be useful if the project requires it, but they're usually not necessary for a computer science track. Certain certs like MCSE, SOA, or SQL might help, but they are usually not sought after in a job announcement or even asked about in an interview.

Also, if one decides they absolutely want certs, one would want the most relevant and recent when applying. If one is focusing on a degree, one should wait until one is ready to start looking for a job before certifying (I would say about 1 year before graduating). There is risk that the certs will be outdated by the time one starts looking for a position.

 

Excellent point !!!

One other thing I like to add about education is that shows that you have the ability to take on a long term goal. Your Bachelor's degree is generally 4 years and you Master's is usually 6 years.

As an IT Manager, when I am looking to hire someone, certifications go on the back burner for my requirements. One of the first things I look for are the degrees. It tell me immediately that you are able to handle long term goals.

 

i know where i was working for general dynamics there were cutting all IT personnel that did not have an 8570 cert by i think dec 2010