Any truth to this article?

And I don’t understand your thinking that a truck engine is that much different than a car engine, is been done for years. Could Toyota have done better in this instance? Maybe. I’m no engineer, are you?
And Toyota said it’s ok to traverse a 35* hill in a third gen? Was that the case for any other generation Tacoma?
I don’t know I’m asking.
Do you understand engine architecture?
The oil drain back holes can only be so far back (or forward) in the cylinder head, there other considerations. Cylinders and liners, head bolt holes and water jackets.
The problem, if you can call it that is the PCV system and can be addressed with a catch can.
This is not a problem unique to the Toyota/Lexus 3.5. Do some research.
If you want to push a vehicle outside it limits be prepared engineer your own solutions. Or stick with your “perfect” second gen.

 

Toyota won't say because they're irrelevant. Jeep and others provide fording depth but just because you didn't hit that mark doesn't mean they're not going to deny the shit out the warranty if you hydrolock the engine. If you take a bumper off on a rock 3 degrees less than the approach, Toyota isn't on the hook for the bill on that either. They're guidelines and should be treated as such.

I'm not saying the denial was right because it clearly wasn't hydrolocked but when it comes to warranty, you are at Toyota and the dealership's mercy (yes, aware of Magnuson but good luck with that losing battle). I can assure you after spending a few years as a dealer tech, people are full of shit and totally never do things outside the intended use of a vehicle that will break shit and never lie about it.

 

Well if it was about entitlement and free repairs, why put in the effort, he already got the free repair...
nothing for him to gain, except for maybe a little revenge and entitlement for what he went through. He may be justified in being pissed off or he may have been an idiot that beat the living crap out of his truck, we can't say and will never know for sure so ignore that part and move on.

He's presented a couple VALID questions VERY POORLY.
He has not properly organized his facts and undoubtedly "salted" then a little bit.

BUT not even the trolls here, that keep trying to ADHD the topic can't get past the rest of the shit and answer his two VALID questions:

How deep can you go,

How steep can you go,

Other manufactures make that information available, and so has Toyota on other vehicles... Looks like we better hope our neighbors have Rangers if there is ever a flood.

An analogy would be; you get pulled over, and a ticket for going too fast, you ask the cop what the speed limit is and they say "can't tell you".

If I drive through a 150mm (6') puddle and my truck has an issue, will my warranty be void?

In the above question, I'll say YES and NO ONE can prove me wrong. I know I'm not right, but I may not be wrong.

That is his point.

And since these two questions are unanswered by Toyota...
Ii would be nice for members to band together and figure out what the rough safe limits of our trucks are without us all repeating expensive lessons,
Sorting through 5000 shitposts of cranial flatulence to gather good information on this site gets a little tedious at times.

 

< 27.5"

< 30*

 

Well what I can say is point me to the countless 4.0 problems in the taco-fj-4r, also point me to the countless problems with the 2tr. While not perfect I’ve never heard of issues with either outside of 2012 secondary air injection. Even when you look back to ‘05 everyone was complaining about size and a head gasket problem in 05 1GR’s.

Either way the sample size is there now. 4 years of complaints. Nothings perfect but I’ll take mine up a 35* incline, will you?

 

Thousands of pics and vids of stock Tacomas climbing >30 degree grades and fording water
vs.
Angry soyboy telling half a story.

Who will win?

 

Sucks for the guy but I also question his story. I had to work with Toyota on my 16 (2 rear diff replacements) never did I get the kind of customer service he is alluding too, I got a TRD loaner similar to my truck, timely repairs and a free 8yr/125000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for my troubles. When my battery died after coming back from my deployment I sent them a letter with a copy of the reciept for my new battery and was promptly refunded with a check in the mail. I'm not calling this guy a liar but something is fishy, how did he approach the dealer to begin with. He also put alot of stress on a new truck in what looks and sounds like was before its first oil change, off roading it on a technical trail and then pulling a huge a** airstream right after, I'm guessing the combination of oil starvation and then stress to the engine resulted in a premature failure.

I've had 8 tacomas, they aren't perfect but they are not what this guy describes, shame, if I was Toyota I'd consider legal action to remove that website

 

Forgot one

 

Go talk to HIM then. The spirit of this thread is us discussing how much of a fucking pussy this guy is, and how he throws up indicators of your basic, bad decision making, entitled, website making bullshit. You want real fucking facts and figures, don’t click into a thread started about some guys lame ass website.

The rest of us already know what we’ve forded and what inclines we’ve managed. Go drive your truck. Or sell it.

 

No I'm not an engineer but Toyota builds trucks for the way 99% of people will use them. Like I said it wasn't a bad thing they put it in the 3rd gen
No, Toyota will never release specific stats on engine angle
Yes, I'm pretty well versed in engine architecture. I have rebuilt everything from 454's to V-twins.
Yes, It can be solved with a catch can.
And yes you can bet your sweet ass I'm staying with my perfect 2nd gen

There is a difference in engine design based on what the application will be.
Like I said when designing an engine for a car, 35* angles or not even considered


Applications for the 1GR-FE

with VVT-i

• 2002-2009 Toyota 4Runner / Hilux Surf (GRN210/215)
• 2007-2011 Toyota Land Cruiser (GRJ200)
• 2002-2009 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado (GRJ120/121/125)
• 2004–2015 Toyota Tacoma (GRN225/245/250/265/270)
• 2005-2015 Toyota Hilux (GGN10/20)
• 2005-2006 Toyota Tundra (GSK30)
• 2006-2009 Toyota Tundra (GSK50/51)
• 2005–2015 Toyota Fortuner (GGN50/60)
• 2006-2009 Toyota FJ Cruiser (GSJ10/15)
• 2015–present Toyota Hilux

Applications with Dual VVT-i (calendar years):

• 2009–present Toyota 4Runner (GRN280/285)
• 2009–2017 Toyota FJ Cruiser
• 2010–present Toyota Tundra (GSK50/51)
• 2012–present Toyota Land Cruiser
• 2012–present Lexus GX 400 (GRJ150)
• 2014-present Toyota Land Cruiser 70
• 2015–present Toyota Fortuner
• 2009–present Toyota Land Cruiser Prado (GRJ150/150R/155)

Applications for the 2GR-FKS

• 2016-present Toyota Tacoma (GRN305/310/325/330)[9] 278 hp (207 kW; 282 PS)
• 2015-present Lexus GS 350 (GRL12/16)[10] 311 hp (315 PS; 232 kW)
• 2015-present Lexus RX 350 (GGL20/25)[11] 295 hp (220 kW; 299 PS)
• 2017-present Lexus LS 350 (XF50) 318 hp (237 kW; 322 PS) (China)
• 2017-present Toyota Highlander (GSU50/55) 295 hp (220 kW; 299 PS)
• 2017-present Toyota Sienna (GSL30/33/35) 296 hp (221 kW; 300 PS)
• 2017 Toyota Camry (GSV70) 301 hp (224 kW; 305 PS)
• 2017 Toyota Alphard (GGH30) 296 hp (221 kW; 300 PS)
• 2018 Toyota Avalon (GSX50) 301 hp (224 kW; 305 PS)
• 2018 Lexus IS 350 (XE30) 311 hp (232 kW; 315 PS)
• 2018 Lexus ES 350 (XZ10) 302 hp (225 kW; 306 PS)
• 2018 Lexus RC 350 311 hp (232 kW; 315 PS)

Can you see how you might think about engine angle on one engine and not on the other?

 

Yeah it’s brash and harsh but it’s not
Like we have shitposted and derailed a thread about suspension travel limits. This is a thread about our take on a website.

 

Lord, please let this 50 gallon drum of diesel-soaked pine-needles hold on until Friday.

 

If Toyota didn't market and name them as Off-Road I would agree with your about the irrelevancy of fording depth.
Fording water is a NORMAL part of off road. It's not a dessert runner... there are puddles and streams off road.
Warranty guide and manual covers all other "Normal" operating conditions and things that void the warranty. Guidelines protect the customer and the manufacturer.

After working a few decades in Automotive design, quality, supplier quality and manufacturing design I became good at separating pepper from fly shit, I dealt with dealers representing the assembly plant and parts supplier sides. My brother was a Regional Rep for GM. Oh the BS and flim flamming that goes on from start to finish is just sad, but it's just normal human behavior whether we want to admit it or not.
Frustrating for an engineer trying to figure out what the real problem is/was. Everybody stands in a circle pointing to the right trying to blame the other guy.

Out of all his thread here and that web page I can summarize it into two useful legit things;
How Steep and How Deep.
20K words down to 5.

I'm curious as to why that call was made, (Hydrolocked) most techs are not incompetent, so there must have been some sort of "evidence" and at least the air box and intake of water.
But we'll never know for sure and never be able to get that detail out of the guy cause he'd be nuts to drop back into this troll farm.

Once they already had him pay, they opened it up and found some things and reversed their decision and covered it under warranty, didn't say it was goodwill (maybe they did, can't ask now) but still so many unanswered questions there. But we'll never find out the rest of those details either now.

If the Incline meter goes to 35 deg and there is no redline to warn you and you engine hydrolocks from oil at 25 deg is it user error for not having "common sense"?

I won't argue that smokin and knocking is a "duh you've gone to far" moment.

But I'd like to figure out some rough working numbers for how deep and how steep so I can plan my lines accordingly.

In Canada we have the Arbitration system with the Manufacturers have to abide by the rulings. A lot easier / cheaper for the average person (and no lawyer required) to hold an automaker accountable for some things, but not a 'Lemon Law" in some states.

 

Bump for Friday.

 

I agree with everything you said.

Except where you mentioned the part about class action lawsuit and you being a "Second Genner" , cough, cough.

Sometimes you have to make a little noise so the marketing guys say something to management ,so the engineers can get a little more budget.
Lol his way destroyed most of the credibility though. But would not be the only American to "grandstand" something

If the Automakers aren't pushed, we'd all be driving model T type trucks now a days.

So if the Ranger can do 31.4" for 2 hours all you guys in flood prone areas better get Rangers or pontoons for the Tacoma.

 

Totally disagree, but appreciate your point of view. This is the second time TW has been subjected to a guy who hydro locked his own engine, through his own amateur driving, and made us all suffer an endless tirade against Toyota.

In my mind, the author is truly a whiney little bitch that can’t own up to his own mistakes.

His dumb website is the intellectual equivalent of yelling: “hey all you guys off-roading your Tacomas......stop!.... they are not designed for it!.... you guys don’t know how wrong you are... hey I’m serious!!! Get those trucks back on pavement!”

The proof of the authors incorrect opinion stares me in the face every time I take my own truck off road or watch others take their Tacoma off road. It’s a great platform for Offroad travel and has no issue with steep hills and reasonable, well executed, water crossings.

Sour grapes can turn the best people into fools. That’s what we are witnessing here in my opinion.

Own your mistakes. It’s the key to a good life.....and for god sakes....don’t be a whiney little bitch with a stupid website that you think anyone gives a shit about.

Nuff said.

 

So sitting here, collecting my thoughts on this subject, I realize with the hundreds of thousands of 3G Tacoma’s sold in the last 4 years, and the 10s of thousands of new, amateur off road drivers becoming part of the off road “overland” community and putting their Tacos to the test, I can think of only two, maybe three, reports here of anyone hydro locking their engine. Engine failure of any sort, in general, is not a subject often discussed here.

I say a huge Bravo to Toyota for designing a pickup that even idiots and unskilled people (save a very few special idiots) don’t seem to be able to destroy.

It’s a triumph of engineering, actually, and I would honestly recommend a Tacoma to anyone new to off road travel. It is very forgiving of your mistakes.

Lifted trucks, overloaded trucks, trucks asked to do the impossible, stock drive-trains strained to the limit with huge tires and steep trails. It’s all happening every day here. Amazing.

 

It's simple to figure out ......

Steep inclines are uncovering the oil pump pick up thus creating an oil starvation problem .Oil pan needs a redesign with either a swinging oil pump pick up so it stays submerged in oil so it can't suck air . Also the pan needs a redesign using trap doors or kick out to control the oil slosh

Another issue is oil pooling in the rear of the valve cover from poorly designed oil drain back holes . This allows oil to collect (pooling) over a valve guide . This will cause oil to be sucked down the valve guide causing the oil smoke and possible hydrolocked motor

My new AFR cyl heads for my 406 sbc come with a warning to not use a high volume oil pump . Oil can pool /accumulate over a valve guide under hard acceleration causing oil to be sucked down a valve guide causing oil to possibly damage that cylinder