Thinking of trading in my 18 Taco for a full-size

I just did. 2019 Ram averages 1 MPG higher than Tundra. That may not sound like much, but it actually is LOT when you are averaging thousands of averages.

Also, chances are those Ram figures also include a lot more towing than Tundra’s numbers, given how domestic truck owners tend to use their pickups.

 

Do what ya gotta do. While I just couldn't bring myself to buy a Ford or Chevy, I understand where you are coming from. My brother-in-law was just in a similar situation but with a new kid. He ended up going with a Ford F150 Lariat ecoboost.

 

1 mpg isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things. But if you want to factor that as a long term cost, you should also take the time to factor maintenance and overall repair costs....the Tundra' is a proven quantity over the long run, the Ram not so much.

You're joking, right?

 

You keep missing the point about averaging averages.

I don’t understand why it is so difficult for Toyota fans to see the world beyond. Yes, Toyota is a great automaker and it makes some great products. But that doesn’t automatically make everything it makes perfect. And while Tundra has many things to like, it has some glaring shortcomings. Particularly compared to the competition.

 

my biggest thing is payload.. the tundra crew max 4x4 looks to only have 1500 pound payload. add the family of three, three dogs, trailer tongue weight and stuff in the bed and that runs out fast.. 1/2 ton max tow GM crew cab,4x4 is 2100 pound payload. thats a huge difference. if i could get a tundra anywhere close to that 2100 i'd buy it.. i'd prefer a toyota but they fall short on payload for me..

 

No, I understand how averages work. I just don't understand why you think that a difference of 1 mpg in combined averages between a Ram 1500 and Tundra is anything to worry about in the long run. That cost difference will be insignificant enough, and other factors, like maintenance and repair costs, will have bigger impacts on your wallet in the long run.

Well first off, you're making the dubious claim that domestic truck owners tend to tow/haul more often than foreign-made trucks.
Secondly, the Tundra is made in North America (arguably using components that have a higher % of domestic sources than some so-called "domestics").
Thirdly, no one argued that the Tundra or other Toyota's vehicles are "perfect."

I think you should follow your own advice and open up your view of the truck world. The Tundra is old, but old doesn't = bad, especially if the competition is building trucks that are only marginal improvements over the previous generations.

Most "improvements" consist of updated interiors and tech features. The underlying chassis, frames, engines are in many cases the same, or very similar, to those used in previous generations. The idea that a current generation F-150 or Ram 1500 is somehow leaps and bounds ahead of the Tundra in terms of actual capability and durability is laughable...take some time to look underneath all the fluff and bodywork...these trucks haven't changed all that much.

 

I just came from an 2017 F150 SCREW 4x4 3.5 with about 27K miles and went to a TRDOR. Mileage about 19 mixed driving.
Was in the shop twice for a total of about 12 days. 1st time the Audio Cntl Module, 2nd was timing chain, cam phasers and bunch of seals.

I had enough and drove it straight from the shop to Toyota and bought a Tacoma. I've had a FJ that never had a problem with 120K miles.

The Ford had massive amount of power, would cruise at 85 like the Tacoma does at 60. More comfortable for longer trips and would pull a house, but I just cannot be inconvenienced with a POS that in the shop all the time. There is no way I would trust a Ford without the extended warranty and some type of walk-in loaner/rental program like my wife's Lexus. Ford would not give me a loaner so I just took the loss. Sad to say, but I will never buy another American vehicle.


I will say the Tacoma is more responsive at the steering wheel and overall actually more fun to drive.

 

I'd hope this was mentioned but I think the problem here is that you're conflating a ranking system with points in a 1:1 fashion and you didn't weight anything. If your #1 and #2 are 99/100 and 98/100 while #3 represents 72/100 and #4 is 51/100, you're glossing over massive gaps in capability while only providing a small hit in the scoring.

If you need more truck, you either need more room in your truck (e.g. interior/infotainment prioritization) or you need more capability in your truck (payload/towing/power). Pick one and pick the winner - either the Ram or Ford, respectively. They are your 1-2 choices in all those categories anyway.

 

I hate to sound like a broken record, but fuck you guys, here I go (and none of this is aimed at the OP):

I have a 2016 Cummins. We have a fleet of 2500 and 3500s for our business (even some 4500 and 5500s as well). We've had whole fleets of Ford and GMs over the years....

If I didn't have a fifth wheel and didn't have to tow for work once in a while I would downgrade to a 1/2 ton gasser in a heartbeat.

I've never owned a Tundra, but it would be at the top of my list for the following reasons:

1. Rams - Almost all of their engines with the exception of the VM motori are bulletproof. Their trannys, with the exception of the Aisin in the 3500 and up are shit. Water pumps don't last, on the diesels the emissions systems are troublesome and expensive to repair and maintain and the electronics are glitchy and prone to problems. However, out of the big three, I'd stay with a Ram.

2. Fords - Too many issues with the eco boost engines and trannys. One of the few things me and my three partners agree on is that we wouldn't buy Fords again if we had guns to our heads. Never seen so many vehicles have so many of the exact same problems in a fleet.

3. GM - drivetrains are somewhat more reliable than the Fords but they still have tranny issues....steering issues, wheel bearing issues, etc.

If I'm not towing a trailer, or towing for work, but still need a truck for light hauling or light towing, I'd take ancient sturdy bones over crumbly, gimmicky bones. If some of you lose your minds on TW over fucking noises...most of you will completely shit the bed when confronted by some of the more heinous problems associated with the big three. I literally get a recall every other month on the Ram
(most of which they aren't capable of addressing) and something is always shaking itself loose, leaking or doing something of mild concern. When we had Fords in our fleet, we had nothing but a steady stream of problems, a few major, many niggling and quite a few unresolvable. I swear the nanny sensors and other systems monitors on GM trucks are on a timer, they all take a dump at the same time.

As for payload, the heaviest thing most truck owners put in the bed of the truck is either (a) the fucking tonneau cover or (b) their wives fat asses. Nothing cracks me up like two big-hat no-cattle grocery-getting truck jockeys worrying about who has more towing capacity or payload, when neither of them will dare scratch the bed or even install a fucking hitch.

At this stage in my life, I don't need to brag how much horsepower, torque, load and towing capacity I have. I understand what I need and purchase the product that will deliver what I need the most reliably.

As for mileage, some of you guys crack me up. Whine whine whine all fucking day long about how Toyota inflates their mpg numbers, or better yet post endlessly whiny crampy threads fretting about your gas mileage, then chiming in about what good gas mileage other makers CLAIM to get. Well fuck, let's clear another TW bullshit bugaboo about how inflated Toyota MPG claims are and the efficiency of FoMoCo offerings:

2019 Ranger - 19.71 mpg actual vs 22 mpg claimed - over claimed by 2.29 mpg
2019 Tacoma V6 - 18.42 mpg vs 20 mpg claimed - over claimed by 1.58 mpg
2019 Ecoboost 2.7 - 18.72 mpg vs 22 mpg claimed -overclaimed by 3.28 mpg
2019 Tundra 5.7 - 14.5 mpg vs 15 mpg claimed - sweet pig shit that's close!

Oh looky here, looks like Toyota inflates their mpg ratings the least.

Remember folks, Toyota is a milquetoast company. The only areas where their cars and trucks top the ratings are in resale, reliability and length of ownership. Forget this at your own displeasure. If you want faster 0-60 times, heavier payload and higher towing capacity so that you can earn the admiration of Harold and Millie at the next neighborhood block party, look elsewhere.

 

The chart that you made is cool however it doesn't weight what's most crucial to you. Also how long are you planning to keep the new truck? Is the resale value important to you? If the " There's no heated seats, no leather wrapped steering wheel, no push-button start" is super important then get the one that has that. Esp if you are only going to keep the truck for the powertrain warranty period. Since I tend to keep vehicles for a while the reliability means a lot to me . i.e I don't care about how fancy the interior is if the vehicle is taking a dump all the time, costing me a fortune to keep running. My family has had major issues with all three domestic brands through the years, not to much with Toyota (or Honda). So for me the reliability means a lot more than anything else but everyone has their priorities,- all fwiw.

 

Can I get an amen from the congregation!

 

Wait till the 2020 tundra comes out. I think it has alot new features including a bigger display screen my tacomas is bigger then my dads tundra lol

 

Any reason you didnt consider the Titan?

 

I haven’t driven any of these trucks.

But I wanted to put in my two cents. I think your best option is a 4 door truck. I hope that narrows it down for you OP.

 

^This, in a nutshell, articulates everything that is wrong with the "truck" community in North America.

Lots of people out there who:

• want trucks, but have no real need for them.
• want balls-to-the wall horsepower but then also want better fuel economy (having their cake and eating it too).
• want a comfortable ride, but also want higher payload and towing ratings.
• want creature comforts, interior tech features, auto everything, but then complain about how much trucks cost to buy and fix when they break.
• judge a truck by its outward design and bodywork without having a freaking clue with what is going on in terms of chassis and powertrain.

The Tundra is a truck built for people who really want or need a truck...it offers very good reliability and underrated performance with very few compromises. If you don't want that in a truck, then get a nice plush Ram 1500, and have fun when the recalls start getting announced but no fixes are offered.

 

No, heated seats. No dual climate control, No push button start, No side mirror lights/markers....It's basically a SR5 with leather seats, Fox suspension and cat back exhaust.

 

So they just must be available in Canada? I was watching straightpipes you tube review and they showed them. Thanks for clearing that up. I had a 1GEN tundra 4 door crew cab when they first came out with the full doors. One of my favorite trucks. Can't wait to get back into one.

 

Why don't you tell us how you really feel LOL...

I think this is hands down the best post I have seen this week, maybe this month.

 

Yeah, also Tundra Pro in Canada also has sensors in the bumper and bsm in side mirrors and the ones here in the US does not.