Double Cardan joint

No I actually did not . When I started this journey I did not realize that my DCU joints would be most likely in good shape being thorough backyard mechanic as I am I figured if I replace one ujoint I should replace all of them, I strongly discourage this thought. Being said as everybody else has mentioned the U joints in your DC will most likely last the lifetime of your vehicle unless you are doing some extreme off-roading or your truck is a farm truck that you abuse I would not suggest disassembly of this DC Joint. I just received 2U joints from the U joint store, a guy named Jason is really helpful I told him my application I told him what vehicle I had and he said that he had what I needed I’m really hoping that the fact that we did not get into specific sizes and measurements that the 2U joints I received are what I need. I did match them up to my original koyo ujoints and they did seem to match up pretty well I am currently trying to find a seal for the ball joint in the DC.

Also I did read in either this thread or another thread I believe dirty pool has walked a couple people through this step of the rebuild DC joint if there is a thread or a set of instructions I would greatly appreciate some help finding that.

Thank you all for the unlimited information included in these forums!!

 

I have finished the DC Rebuild on a 2001 Toyota Tundra 4.7L extra Cab. Outside Clip style ujoints.

Upon reflection I would say that the dismantling of the DC would most likely be the worst part about this gig besides finding UJoints that fit your application.

Theujointstore.com was very helpful and their ujoints fit perfectly. I might add his roller pins stayed put even with some minor hammering with the caps.

If anyone has any questions about a rebuild or the DC in general fee free to ask.

Though I am good at turning wrenches and repairing minor machines, I happened to find all the info I needed right here on this thread.

Again thanks DirtyPool for the extensive write ups and revised editions on the rebuild procedure!

Kudos!

 

I recently started getting driveshaft vibrations and have narrowed it down to the u-joints in the double cardan joint. I ordered Rockford part #1351-25 recommended by @1Fine40. I have micrometers and will measure the cap diameter of both once I do the job. Vehicle is a 2001 Tacoma Extended Cab with the outside clip u-joints. My question, or questions rather is this:

-After ordering the u-joints I started noticing a wining or squealing coming from the joint. My only assumption is that the bad u-joints caused the centering ball to go bad. From what I read on this thread there are 2 sizes of centering ball based off the shaft or stud diameter; a .510" diameter and a .470" diameter. Neapco Center Ball Kit #7-040 has a stud bore diameter of .513". Is this for the .510" stud?

-Does anyone have a part number for the other centering ball?

-Since I need to disassemble half of the cardan joint to measure the stud diameter should I replace both u-joints to then re-assemble while waiting on the centering ball to arrive or should I put the blown out u-joint back in to help save the new joints? I drive this truck daily.

Cheers,
Kyle

 

I may be mistaken but I do not believe the bad ujoints in the DC will effect the ballpoint inside. The ball inside that joint does not spin, it may rotate a couple degrees but that’s it.

From what I have seen from first hand account when rebuilding a first Gen tundra DC was these ball joints designed to allow an angle in the drive shaft.

I would say check your carrier bearing or “center support bearing. That bearing is designed to absorb vibrations - so in theory if your ujoints are bad they are causing more vibration which in turn would create more stress for the carrier bearing.

Also note that this rebuild is not very difficult but getting the correct parts are. As I posted previously there is a guy named Jason who runs a shop called the ujoint store. It’s a machine shop and he makes these DC ujoints in house for this specific reason I would give him a try, he is the one who actually answers the phone and is filled with information.


Good luck hope this helps

 

Thanks for the reply! Even if the bad u-joints didn't cause the centering ball to go out am I right to assume the squealing is the centering ball and a sign that it is going bad? There has been a 3" lift on the truck for at least 10 years so there has been more angle on the driveshaft then normal.

I checked my center support bearing last week. Although I didn't think it was terrible, with 225,000 miles I decided to purchase a new one. Plan is to replace it with the u-joints.

I have already received my new u-joints but if Jason from The U-joint Store knows anything about the centering ball then I may call him to pick his brain.

Cheers!

 

It’s tough as I am not a master mechanic and without seeing your setup I would not be able to pin point the squealing noise your describing. It might be possible to mount a go pro under there and have a better listen while driving.

I know my carrier bearing was squealing at me for a while and I thought my rear en was going. I was panicking but then just simply blasted the CBearing with some lubrication and my squealing subsided for about a couple days. But it did make me feel better knowing it wasn’t my rear end. I’d say try everything first before having to mess with the ball kit.

Remember some may think Toyota purposely made it difficult to rebuild the DC joints but honestly they made them pretty bullet proof and manufactured them to last the ”Life” of the vehicle. So with that said I’d try and lubricate that bearing.... also just to add a quick note. My DC “Balljoint” has a grease fitting. Up inside behind one of the ujoints closest to the “Balljoint Housing” if that makes any sense.

Jason at ujoint store is helpful. Not sure if he knows to much about the Balljoint but might be worth a try.

Honestly I would think it’s still the carrier bearing.

Good luck

I rebuilt my dc in under an hour with sockets a vice and a hammer. First time for everything they say.

 

I would say that Knocking would be more of a sign that ball joint is going.

 

I guess I never thought of the center support bearing making a squealing sound but that makes sense. The sound is definitely coming from the center of the vehicle. I can only hope replacing that fixes the squealing.

Keep ya posted! Would be nice to know more about the centering ball if anyone has any more info.

Cheers!

 

Please don't forget to post the results of your measuring.

Can't help with what size ball your DC takes. I can clarify some nomenclature. It may be obvious but "stud diameter" is the diameter of the actual stud. This is the term most commonly used. "bore" diameter would be the hole in the ball, significantly larger than an associated stud diameter. Visualize it this way, the "bore and stud" form the inner and outer races for the tiny tiny needle bearings in between. If I had to guess a bore of .513" minus the needle bearing thickness would yield a stud size closer to .470". The proximity of .513" to .510" may be just coincidence. Again, I have no way of telling what's in yours.

As for "is the ball bad?". There are no published wear specs on these fellows. They do have what seems to be more slop than one would expect which further complicates a judgement call.
So, I'll toss out what I have observed.

The OE ball race (ball, not bore or stud) is a hard brass alloy and the ball is polished steel. When the assembly goes dry it will squeak/squeal as it flexes. Sounds just like a dry conventional bearing can or a door hinge or my knees for that mater. Normally the ball assembly carries very little load. It just keeps the 2 u-joints at equal angles. When they are at equal angles the load on the ball is "theoretically" zero.

The entire reason I pulled my DC apart was a missing/ripped "pressure relief valve" (briefly mentioned in the write up). This would allow grease from the ball zerk to just flow out of the yoke before ever getting to the center ball. I could wedge a plug of sorts into the hole where the valve was (much cussing) and get some grease to the ball. This would silence the squeak for 6 months or so. The sound would come and go at extremely light throttle, bordering on coasting. This went on for several years. It got old.
To get to and resolve the valve issue the center ball had to come out so I bought new joints and a ball kit. The stud diameter was tits on at .510" (99 inside clip).
Of note, the OE ball/race with all it's squealing had less play than the new one. The replacement ball race was also steel, not brass. Vibrations were never present.

I would not replace anything in the DC unless it was definitely bad. If a u-joint absolutely shows wear, play or roughness in it's range of motion I would still hesitate to r&r the ball unless I was sure It was faulty.

"Lock up" is the absolute outside distance from cap to cap. Some joints listed as a fit are slightly off resulting in "tack welding" the clips, light grinding of the cap outer surface or excessive force needed to get the clips in.

 

Well, I started the u-joint and center support replacement. The center support bearing is in and old u-joints are out however one of the needles from the centering ball has broken in half. Anyone know where to find replacements?

I have measurements of the caps and will post up soon. I can also grab measurements of the needle bearings if it helps.

 

Alright guys. Here are the measurements of the caps along with my centering ball stud diameter....which is of course a .470" stud. Does this mean I'm screwed if I want to find the proper needle bearing? Anyone have an extra laying around.... I also attached a measurement of the needle bearing.

Old Cap Diameter


New Cap Diameter


Stud Diameter


Centering Ball Needle Bearing Diameter


Centering Ball Needle Bearing Length

 

As far as I know, if the centering ball or bearing is not good, you are out of luck with that piece.... Rockford Driveline may be the only reasonable option for you
in keeping the more or less stock CV joint. Try them with your inquiry first. Precision Driveline offers the Spicer alternative CV as a whole replacement unit for the stock
OEM CV. How good is it? We all would like to know that answer I think. Some of the 2nd Genners have utilized the Precision fix for vibrating drivelines after lifts and report
good results. How that would work in our 1st Gens, I have no real way to know or base an opinion. I will say that the guys at Precision are very knowledgeable and have good
product based on my interactions with them. Let us know what you end up doing and how it works out for you!
Best of luck!

 

Thanks for the recommendations Rich! I called Rockford Driveline and it seems like they may have the centering ball for the .470" diameter shaft. I still need to take a couple more measurements to make 100% sure. I attached an image of the CV Centering Assembly Catalog, Page 10. I'm looking at RLD Part No. 407-0A. It's also the Koyo design which was the stock u-joint brand so that's promising.

Here is the catalog site: http://motormasterpowersports.com/catalogs/Centering Assemblies_1_2018.pdf

 

Edit, beat me to it.

Finding an individual needle or even a bag of them is not something I would spend much time with, see post 28 and 30.

From page 111 of the Neapco catalog, might want to compare your ball size to be 100%. I'm sure there are other manufactures.
Taking a fresh look at the catalog, it's strange that they describe the stud size as "bore dia" when the sizes provided are the actual "stud" diameter. I used/measured the 7-0409 on my 99 inside clip. They must be including the needles.

 

Inquire about the "bronze gimble" at the end of the list, that's what mine was from the factory. Everything else being equal, might be the way to go.

I'll add that these parts seem to be increasing in availability at a pretty good clip compared to a few years ago.

 

I've been loosely troubleshooting my father's 04 for that "bump" when coming to a stop. At first I thought it was his leaf springs going between negative and positive, as they sagged a decent amount, but now that they've been replaced I'm stumped again. My next guess would be that the slip joint is binding and not fully compressing until that last bit of downforce coming from the truck rocking backwards after a stop. In my mind that seems a more likely cause than the DC joint. Based on this theory, it makes sense that your having replaced the driveshaft fixed the issue as both of those components were replaced with it. I'm trying to avoid replacing the whole shaft, but not leaving it out of consideration.

 

So the top seal diameter is hard to measure with the ball in place but it looks pretty darn close to the 1.488 dimension they listed. Definitely closer then the 1.420. I entertained the bronze gimble version but my factory one doesn't seem to be bonze. So I went with Part No. 407-0A. It's only $25.66+shipping through Rockford which I thought was a good deal.

One question I have is if everything dimensionally is correct, including the needle bearing, should I just replace the one needle bearing and re-assemble or should I pull the centering ball out and put the new one in. I know everyone says to not mess with it if you don't have to, and mine seems to be fairly tight with no play. I would bet these needle bearings wear slightly over time so I will make sure they are correct dimensionally before placing the new one in there. I also seem to have a smaller hole on the back side in order to use the bolt thru method as @Dirty Pool used - See photo. I guess I'll just use a smaller bolt to pull it out.

Top Seal Diameter


Bolt Pass-Thru Hole

 

Well gang, here we are 15 months and 14,500 miles later and my center support bearing and double cardan joint are bad yet again. When replaced last July I went with the Timken center support bearing, because I have heard people had good luck with them. Should I of gone OEM like I have on almost every other part? Not that I can change anything now, buuuuut...I have now ordered up an OEM replacement.

I guess my main question is could these of gone bad due to a bad center support bearing or do I have issues elsewhere? All other U-joints are good, and my pinion bearing seems to be tight. Could I have a un-balanced driveshaft causing these parts to go prematurely? Also I should note I replaced the motor & transmission mounts 31,500 miles ago. Which should also help reduce extra vibration.

Thanks in advance!

 

I took mine to a drive like specialist. The cut out the Toyota and installed a 3150 double Cardan joint, painted and rebalanced. I don’t remember what I paid but worth it to have the parts readily available should I need to repair it in the future.

 

Looks like I blew the middle ball/spring thing. Ujoints look to be in good shape. I’m debating on taking it back to the place that made the driveline or rebuilding it myself...


Almost looks like someone did some grinding to get some more clearance. Might have exceeded the balls ability to move?


I also have two or three ifs toyota double cardon drivelines laying around. Might be worth just mix and matching.