Colorado Trail Status, Closures, repairs, discussion.

@In4aride @ColoradoTJ would it be acceptable to post a thread in the ICON subforum?

 

They turned off post comments

 

you can still comment on the same photo on Facebook. I did.

 

Left Hand Canyon?

 

I do. In fact, I can place where that photo was taken within a half-mile square area. If I were on site, I'd be able to figure out exactly where it was taken from. Side note, I get the truck is the main focus, but there are so many better places right there for a photo op that are unquestionably on trail.

I'm going to start with there's enough there to warrant investigation. However, being familiar with that area and the type of terrain, I would not immediately say they are off any trail, but they are off the main trail. Why do I say not necessarily any trail? While it's true it doesn't take long to form a two track on tundra like that, that's also how a lot of lesser used mining/campsite spurs look (for the record, there's no legal camping where that was taken but there are a number of mining ruins and artifacts). The immediate argument of course is mining spurs aren't the trail, stay on the trail. And my argumentative response is keep your ass away from the mill on Halfmoon. They didn't create what you see on pristine tundra. There was an existing two track, no matter how faint or recovered, I'm positive of that.

That said, in this area and others like it there is a very strong push to close off those crisscrossing mining routes and stay on the main trail. In fact, the immediate area where this was taken is the only time I can ever remember being yelled at by someone for being off trail - and I was on a clearly defined trail on rock (not gravel, ROCK) with at the time no indication it wasn't an acceptable driving route (it has long since been closed off and made obvious as have many of the once numerous routes there). And I know I'm no saint either, I'm sure I've had my truck places that people would call off trail, and the more conservative about things I get, the more I'd agree with them and wouldn't do something similar anymore.

Those pics are definitely in that category where it is perfectly reasonable to say something, and I would expect it, because it is highly suspect. However they're also the kind of pics that I would expect an immediate mob mentality to form. All of my expectations have thus far been met. It's the kind of thing where you really should take pictures to show you ARE on the trail in addition to your 'gram shot. The reaction you got is not a plus. There is clear in the photos evidence of mashed vegetation - even if it is a legit two-track, in that area in particular you are directed to stay on the main trail and that doesn't qualify. If they actually said that (dirt there, it's a trail) word for word and not just sentiment, then they can fuck right off. Their little disclaimer they're on trail and working closely with organizers... hrm, seems like a good excuse to shut the event down or deny permits. I know that sheriff in particular is looking for reasons. Let's see if Summit has anything to say about being dragged into it.

 

not saying what Icon did was "right" but there's always fine print in the MVUM maps that are location specific to keep in mind when pointing out off trail useage to people ... https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd511371.pdf

"Motor vehicle designations include parking along designated routes and at facilities associated with designated routes when it is safe to do so and when not causing damage to National Forest System resources"

if that is a spot to park, one could argue the FJ was within regulations as they were not causing additional damage... the taco on the other hand went past the already worn area and caused additional damage.

the big problem with that location is its altitude and that is tundra that is very fragile and takes a looooong time to replenish itself. go down 2000ft and it's a different story... so it really doesn't take much to cause damage to the lands at that elevation....

the other area to notice on the MVUM is the "Blanket statements for travel management":
"Motor vehicle use off of designated roads for the purpose of dispersed camping is permitted on National Forest Lands for up to 300 feet from the center line of the road during the time period identified..."
edit: look for the dot indicators on the map for designated dispersed camping areas (dot on each side of trail)

this topic can cause a lot of controversy and should be used in conjunction with the regulation stated above referencing damage to the lands. use some thought of the land you are traversing to get to that campsite and there are many areas high alpine that restrict camping to reduce the damages to the fragile tundra.


and lastly, "In order to protect our Forest for all users, your help in the enforcement of Forest Service regulations is appreciated. To report a violation, please contact one of the Forest Service offices listed on this map."

 

and the verdict is.....


You are correct that Outward Bound owns the property that you need to pass through to the mill, Forest Service road access stops at the gate but for the past few years the gate has been left open so folks can access the mine site. This area is extremely hard to patrol and administer due to access and location, I know some folks have contacted Outward Bound for access but it seems they are allowing folks to pass through this small segment of road to visit the mill in the past few years.

Just to note that there is a slide across the creek from North Halfmoon Trailhead that is limiting access as well as the amount of water that is flowing in the creek still from this past winter. The clearing of the slide is on our low priority list at this time due to other priority areas the district is trying to clean from this past winter.

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me and safe travels,


Jim Fiorelli
Recreation Program Manager
Forest Service
San Isabel National Forest, Leadville Ranger Distict
p: 719-486-7411
f: 719-486-0928
james.fiorelli@usda.gov
810 Front Street

Leadville, CO 80461
www.fs.fed.us

 

Thanks for getting an accurate answer!

Now I'm curious about the road that goes the rest of the way up to the mine.

 

I don't think so in this case. Neither should any other reasonable person familiar with the situation and environment.

The FJ is farther in/along than the Taco if you look carefully at the pictures. Edit: I think. I was sure before but now after a 19 hour day I'm not so sure.

This is a good point to make, and I know you're talking in general, but... For anyone who doesn't know or hasn't figured it out, this is on the east side of Imogene. That route does not permit dispersed camping on that side of the pass. There are two FS campgrounds on that road between Ouray and well before you leave treeline. Those two campgrounds are the ONLY legal camping on that side of the pass.

I'll add my thanks for contacting Leadville and getting a definitive answer since I haven't had a chance to. Didn't see this post before replying in the other thread.

 

it looked to me that bare spot in front of the FJ is the bare spot under the passenger rear of the taco..


and yes... my experience is most high alpine area does not allow dispersed camping. usually (not always) when you're leaving tree line, camping is typically not allowed unless you're backpacking in areas that allow it

 

I think the important part of this statement is to use it in conjunction with the MVUM so you actually know where the dispersed camping is allowed. Sure, that statement is there, but make sure you see the little black dots on the map.

 

^excellent point.. yes i forgot about the dot indicators for dispersed camping. most trails will have signs letting you know camping is not allowed, but for planning purposes, that is a great thing to keep in mind (edited my post to include this information )

 

I thought that initially too, but then started looking at rocks on the ground and angle of the background and... And at this point eh, whatever, I could be wrong.

I mention the dispersed camping thing though because there are a couple of places right at treeline, in the vicinity of where those pics were taken, where there are some illegal campsites - ones that look legit because they're well traveled dirt and have fire rings and everything, short pulloffs from the main trail. And I can think of a number of places like that in the area (and others like it), where there are sites kind of right at treeline or perhaps a little above. Like you said, referencing the MVUM is the best bet.

 

I visited Summit County this weekend. I posted updates on several trails.

Saints John high tundra snowbank has receded and the trail is clear.
https://www.trailsoffroad.com/trails/443-saints-john

Deer Creek all clear.
https://www.trailsoffroad.com/trails/279-deer-creek

Webster Pass summit still blocked with snow on the south side, but only just. North FS gate locked.
https://www.trailsoffroad.com/trails/488-webster-pass

Radical Hill is inaccessible from the bottom due to Webster's status. Top is clear, but high switchbacks are blocked and might be washed out.
https://www.trailsoffroad.com/trails/429-radical-hill

Peru Creek is all clear. The damage done by the avalanches is pretty staggering. Maid of Orleans mine was obliterated.
https://www.trailsoffroad.com/trails/414-peru-creek

 

interesting.. was up there for FJ Summit and don't recall that on the trail.. you come from ouray or telluride? we went up to the mine on ouray side and back. water crossing in, then camp bird exit out.

 

Wheeler Lake is open all the way. No snow on trail.

 

Did Ophir pass yesterday from Ophir to the Silverton side. Pass is open and nothing really to report. Got yelled at by a lady in Ophir to slow down, I was doing 5 below their posted speed limit. I responded “any more and I’d be as slow as you.”

Then did Imogene pass over into telluride. East side was wet and slick on the rocks, but manageable. There is a section with the snowbank still taller than the jack and the road is looking a little soft and thin. Be cautious.

Coming down the west side from the summit through the first couple switchbacks there is some runoff rutting the route. Not much else to report. Passes were fairly empty yesterday which was nice.

 

Cinnamon pass is closed due to three mud slides, 35 were stranded last I talked to the sheriff.

 

Glad I found this thread. planning a trip next year with my Tundra group and wanting to do some off roading. Looks like I can get the info right from y'all on trail status.