Brake bleeding help

that sounds normal, you should get more from the front...

 

OP did you read this...?? I dont count how many times I press the pedal, should be pretty much till the pedal is up near the top....

 

Yea I just asked my friend, and he said that when he pumped them 3 times, the pedal would be get firm on most of them.

 

seems like too few to me, it starts to get firm then its basically hard to push the pedal. Thats when I open the bleeder for a second then close it off.

 

Yea my problem is that the pedal firms up while, and after, bleeding, but once I start the engine to test drive it, the pedal pressure gets lost. So I dont want to drive it on the roads with a pedal that feels like it just goes to the floor.

 

also once you are done bleeding and turn the vehicle on, try pumping the brakes when its running and if they pump up then you have some issues. You may have to "bench" bleed the master cylinder, it can be done on the vehicle.

 

There's air in the ABS valves. You need to use a scan tool to cycle the ABS solenoids.

 

I was going to ask how much the computer has to do with this?
My 08 doesn’t seem to have much computer interference.

 

Yea so I pumped the brakes a bunch of times once the engine was on, and the brakes did not firm up.

How do I bench bleed the master cylinder?

 

This is most likely the issue. If during bleeding the master went dry and air got into the abs then a scanner needs to be attached to turn the abs pump on and do a bleed.

 

In my experience when bleeding ABS-equipped vehicles, the pedal will fall thru some if you pump; then start the vehicle, but not go all the way to the floor. If yours is actually bottoming out, you've got air in the ABS somehow. I never wait for the fluid level to reach the MIN. line. I refill well before that happens.

Some time ago Eric The Car Guy - youtube - put up a video on bleeding ABS. I'm no longer able to find it and am not surprised. YT either took it down or he did.

He instructed one to go to a large parking lot at a not very busy time of day. Get the vehicle up to 35-40 mph and then SLAM on the brakes REALLY hard. He would do this a number of times.

I tried it on my '06 Avalon(ABS) and it made a noticeable improvement in overall pedal firmness.

I doubt this is going to help someone with a pedal that bottoms out to the floor after starting the engine.

 

So I've managed to bleed it out some more, to the point where I can get some firmness in the pedal. It's still not where I think it should be, but it's enough that I felt confident in driving it to the gas station to fill up.

I'm on a pretty empty street, so I'll give this a shot, and see if it works.

 

So I just tried this 3 times, and while the tires skidded, I didn't really feel the ABS kick in. I don't know if you need to feel that kick in or not. I slammed them pretty hard, so I think if I wanted to make the ABS kick in, I'd need to be on a wet or slippery surface, not dry pavement...

 

I feel like this happened to me on an Audi.

Despite having a Motive pressure bleeder hooked up to it, I still managed to force air into the system. I think because at the time I didn't yet learn the trick of hanging the hose up from the hood with a bungee cord, to create a vertical column of brake fluid forcing itself into the reservoir via gravity, to keep it full at all times.
To confirm that what's going in is fluid. Also, that "vertical column" gives any air in the reservoir a path to escape up and out.

What blows my mind is seeing people not have to do that trick; I don't know how it works.
I'd love not to, because it's much easier. I haven't used a Motive in a while, and after that I used a $1k electric bleeder that you fill with DOT4 then hook up to the res. You can set the pressure with a dial, and it works electronically by plugging it into a wall outlet.
But I no longer have that tool, and am trying to learn how to brake flush a Tacoma.

Popping open the reservoir cap, I see it's not even a European screw thread that the Motive bleeder would fit.
So I have no idea how to do a pressure bleed. Which might be faster, better, and likelier to work, than a gravity bleed.
I've seen people do pressure bleeds on German cars at 10-20 psi, for the brakes and clutch line (if manual)

IF I find a spare Tacoma reservoir cap to fashion into an adapter, that still wouldn't solve the issue of the Motive unit needing to fit tightly onto the reservoir to hold pressure. Which is why they screw on normally, and have a rubber seal.
I don't see any Toyota adapters listed on their website.

If that's the case, what else would work? Vacuum bleed? Speed bleeders with one-way check valves?

OP's symptoms sounds like what happens if air is accidentally forced into the brake system, including the ABS, which on certain cars usually requires a diagnostic scan tool to operate/cycle.
Rather than some other major component happening to fail now at the same time; that might be too much of a coincidence.

edit: did some more reading on Motive's site. They might claim their 0101 (1101 adapter) and 0119 (1119 adapter) could work, but I'm debating spending the $28-65+...




Speaking of Audi, air in ABS's, and pressure bleeders,
I remember during that case, the manual said a higher pressure of 29psi could be used to successfully bleed ABS, versus the normal 10-20psi. But the fear was the trade-off for potentially bursting the dry old reservoir, if using a higher pressure.
I wonder if the same applies to Toyota.
Though in that case, I did both. Both higher pressure "ABS bleed", diagnostic scan tool cycling test, and engaging ABS on loose surface stops outside.
Much easier to do on a personal car where there is time to do that, versus in a rush to fix someone else's car.

I don't even know if my '08 Tacoma has ABS. I assume it does, as it's a basic thing. But I don't think it has stability control.

 

A good way to feel if the ABS kicks on or not is to hit the brakes while you go over a speed bump, always makes my ABS go nuts lol.

 

It sounds, and feels like, that whatever the issue is now, is going to require some level of work and/or equipment that I don't have. So I think at this point i need to take it to a local shop, and have them totally flush and reset or whatever the whole brake and ABS system.

 

I mean I've had times where messing up made my pedal low or go to the floor, but I fixed it. Shop rates will probably be minimum 1 hour labor, minimum $50-150/hr. So that's up to you.
I'm still looking for a good Tacoma repair manual, but if there is one, hopefully it mentions brake bleeding and what pressures are needed.

Because what if you just need to pressure bleed it with a Motive unit? It's basically a cheap plastic garden sprayer modified to bleed brakes.
One problem with that is shipping wait time, if a person is trying to fix the car same day and ordering it takes a week.
Once I got lucky and found one in town quickly, but it was at a performance shop that has that type of stuff.

And IF you get that tool for this, now you have it for the future (more bleeds every 2 years maybe).
Not suggesting necessarily this or that, just throwing out ideas.

 

As in the whole system pretty much gravity drained, correct?

Then this........

Google is your friend. While it may help if the system was drained, it won't fully fix it if the system was drained.

Yep.

Be sure before you go they have a tool to cycle the ABS solenoids. Not every indy has such a thing, and it likely needs to be Toyota specific. It *may* only be a TechStream thing, requiring a dealer visit.

 

Yea the system would have drained by gravity.

The guy I usually go specializes in toyotas, but I'll give him a call and see what he says about what he's capable of doing before I take it in, otherwise yea, it's time for the dealership to bend me over.

Like I said before, it works, just not as well I think it should be. It's drivable, which is a huge step forward in this whole debacle. But I don't have the equipment, knowledge, or skill to get it to where I think it should be, so I think I'll just need to take it to my usual mechanic and see what he thinks about it.

 

You should be able to use this
Actron PocketScan Plus ABS OBD-II and CAN





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