Anyone rock crawl a 3rd gen?

My better half would love to read that post so she can tell me the good ol “told ya so”.. but she will never have that satisfaction
I like to tell her off-roading is like a car accident, except you hit a rock instead of a parked car haha.

I’ve actually always wondered if my insurance would cover me in an off-road accident.

All jokes aside, I agree, but I don’t really mind the dings and dents. I’d like to think that I’d make intelligent wheeling decisions to back off and or have a spotter whenever I feel uncomfortable with an obstacle. I don’t wheel nearly half of what some people here do but I would love to build up to it. I think experience plays a bigger role, I’ve seen people flop on little fire roads and others save a vehicle from almost flopping because they made split second decisions.

 

I have often looked at the inexpensive Jeep mods with envy. I am not a Jeep guy, so don't know which ones have full time 4x4 which I wish I had. I have seen the short jeeps flip on real rock crawling obstacles that a longer base would have handled.

 

.....why?

 

I guess I don't understand the Tacoma vs Jeep mentality, unless you're simply trying to justify your purchase (most "Jeep people" I know don't concern themselves with Tacomas). My wife and I own both, but we bought them to do very different things, and they both do very well. We've owned our two-door Rubicon for nearly nine years now, and she's run some damned hard trails, with many more on the bucket list. She's moderately modified and no longer (truly) a Rubicon, but it's still definitely a Jeep. The Tacoma has been wonderful for long camping/'wheeling trips with our three dogs and all our gear. Couldn't do that, driving the Jeep (it goes on a trailer). Anyway, if I had unlimited funds (and nearly zero sense) and had to buy a brand new vehicle to make into a crawler, bet your ass it would still be a two-door Jeep. Despite their increasing size, the single biggest reason, for me, remains the size of the body.

 

I’ve seen the 4Ds get high centered where the 2Ds didn’t. Like everything else there’s a trade off.

 

I guess I'm used to it do varhaving Ihad it in iedother vehicles. Driving and shifting between 4H and 4L comes semi naturally to me. Combined with lockers I have only gotten stuck once.

Although now that I think about it, some of that may have been the MT as well.

 

I'm having a tough time understanding any of what you just said...

 

Not a third gen but still a Toyota pickup.
Clampy showing heeps how it's done.

 

I'm sure you meant half a Toyota pick-up. Anyone who knows rock crawling knows that rig; they also know that comparing it to a 3G Tacoma is an even bigger apples-to-oranges comparison than comparing a Tacoma to a Jeep.

 

Yeah, definitely in its own category.

 

Sure, you can build one... but why would you?

You could spend the same amount of money and get a side by side and a trailer to haul it on. That side by side will go places that even a built Tacoma could not and will do it without routinely breaking things like the truck will. When it does break things, they are far more economical to fix and you have the advantage of not needing the side by side to get to work on Monday.

All of this said by a man with a long travel Tacoma on jack stands in his garage right now, waiting on parts to arrive on Thursday and hoping that the weather stays good until then so I can keep riding the motorcycle to work. Sooo..... buy a side by side.

 

Really? SxSs will be the death of our trail access. They're a cheap point of entry for inexperienced off-roaders who don't want to invest the time and money to build a full size 4x4 and actually LEARN trail etiquette and how to 'wheel.

 

I have a full size 4x4 MT, Tacoma 4x4 AT and a little Polaris Ace that i modified.

I like rock climbing in the Ace, and love driving it at higher speeds on smooth or winding terrain.

My point is, different vehicles for different kinds , of OR but the Ace is the one I enjoy most. It climbs like a mountain goat.

 

Very true.
I feel like I should rephrase the thread to “does anyone moderately rock crawl a 3rd gen” because rock crawling can be very subjective. Tacomas are definitely capable, especially with mods and they can get you through most if not some trails jeeps will go through (maybe not the same line or obstacle but you’ll meet at the finish line lol)

In reality nobody is doing KOH in a taco, I think I just like how stable solid axles can be. You definitely hit a point where you either need a buggy, or purpose built vehicle that hardly looks like what it used to be.

For what it’s worth, I’m keeping the taco and wheeling within its limits. Lol.

 

Not a 3rd gen but a 2nd gen on Calico Gatekeeper Doran Canyon

https://youtu.be/LiGNkBG6eAg

 

Yup

 

Your logic makes my brain hurt.

- A side by side is not a cheaper entry price because it is in addition to the cost of a truck/suv to pull it. It's equal to a fully built truck when you consider that we generally sink 15-20k into a daily driver to make an extremely capable offroad truck.

- Why would you be divisive of offroad trail users? We're already outnumbered by the granola eaters and here you are wanting to ostracize the fastest growing segment of trail users.

- A 1500lbs side by side has way less trail impact than a 5,000 pound truck - and a shit ton less than a modern day "rock bouncer" or rock buggy. It's a far more efficient vehicle for the task - purpose built for it. Our trucks are nowhere near comparable as far as design and purpose - despite what the bedside sticker stays.

 

To address your points (in a constructive manner, as this is a conversation that needs to be had):

1) They're much cheaper. A SxS, ready to run, can be had for $12k, new. Most people buying them already have a DD capable of pulling one, so I'd say it's rare to find someone who will go out and buy both. And we don't need to get into the cost of new Jeeps or Tacomas, or modifying older models for serious 'wheeling.

3) Weight has virtually nothing to do with impact, when discussing the vehicles we are. In terms of overall impact, my 5,200 lb Jeep with 235:1 gear reduction has WAY less impact on a trail than a vehicle designed to go fast, lacking a true low range, which then relies on wheel speed to climb obstacles. All you have to do is look at heavily traveled areas, such as the Rio Puerco valley west of Albuquerque, NM, where I learned how to 'wheel, to see the devastation caused by the onslaught of ATVs in recent years. They are not, in fact, meant to be replacements for properly built and capable full-size 4x4s. They just aren't. But many people seem to think they are.

Here's the thing: I don't have anything against SxSs themselves as much as irresponsible users. It's been my experience, over the last 20 years, that ATVs have a higher percentage of irresponsible operators than Jeeps and other full-size 4x4s. To address your second point, then, from encounters I've had in the last 5 years especially, the lack of concern for trails and for the environment I've personally seen from ATV operators serves to ostracize themselves (unless you have no problem with their actions). As recent as our trip to Colorado this past August, SxSs were like flies on shit on the trails; the operators had zero knowledge of trail etiquette, very little regard for safety (theirs or others') and clearly no regard for the environment. The first few groups we encountered parked off trail, on tundra (which is illegal in CO, BTW) I approached in a friendly manner, trying to give them a heads-up that they shouldn't be parked there. (I mean, how else are they going to learn unless someone offers constructive criticism?) Literally one person out of perhaps 30 moved their ATV. The rest acted like I was the one being a jerk. I gave up after awhile.

Edit to add--we probably encountered ATVs in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio to Jeeps and Toyotas on that trip. We did not see any of the full-size vehicles off trail, or otherwise behaving badly.

It's quite obvious that the majority of SxS owners, or maybe the off-road crowd in general, no longer have the experience and knowledge base that we had access to when I was a newbie. Frankly, at the rate we're going, we will continue to lose access at a rapid pace. And, if SxSs continue to outnumber traditional 4x4s by the ratios I've seen recently, then yes, they will be the ones mostly responsible for that loss.

 

I'm coming in late to the conversation but I'll add that SxS's are also significantly easier to rent. When I went up T33 plane crash we ran into about 10 SxS that were all 100% rented and driven by people who do not understand trail etiquette, rules, etc.

Regarding price, it is WAY easier to finance a SxS and make a low monthly payment than it is to make a much larger payment on a truck and spend thousands to modify it.

As far as destruction, a 5000 pound Tacoma is generally treated more delicately on a trail so they are more cautious with throttle. SxS and even dirt bikes tear up trails significantly more simply from wheel spin. Combine that with a lack of experience and trail etiquette and the accessibility to SxS, and you end up with closed trails

 

I can see the advantages and disadvantages of SxSs. We rented one once up in Bishop and I wasn't impressed TBH. It was a Yamaha I believe... underpowered beyond belief, no low range, and a weak transmission that seemed inefficient. I didn't have any confidence in its hill climbing abilities. Positives were that it was super easy to get in and out of, and visibility was great.

For any trails I don't take my truck on, I bust out my Honda Foreman, which is a blast to drive.