Bouncing tire wear

Hey yall.

I got 17 trd sport, it is slightly lifted but has the stock bilstein shocks. Took it in for inspection and the guy told me that he can tell from the wear on the tires that the shocks are not doing its job of keeping the tires on the ground and that they are bouncing. The shocks are not leaking, but he said that "they are worn down." Any clue on what's going on? and what do I do to resolve this? I talked to the service guy at the dealer and he said that he believes its not the shocks. Thank you!!!

 

Not the shocks, most likely it's a tire issue. Not balanced or out of round.

 

Well if the shocks are shot, it'll make the tire bounce up/down especially at freeway speeds...ever see a car driving down the highway with a wheel that looks like it's about to bounce off? Shot suspension will do that

Surprising to hear bout it on a newer vehicle but not impossible I guess

Looks like this

https://www.youtube.com/embed/0sgOf3js2FY

 

How did you slightly lift it?

That may help diagnose.

 

TRD Sport uses Hitachi blue shocks stock.

Match your tires to the images here: https://www.camryforums.com/how-tos/a/toyota-camry-tire-diagnostic-guide-397345

 

Pic of the tires showing how they are wearing will help

 

Picture of said wear please. If you are seeing this wear on the front and it looks like swipes across the tread at about a 30 degree angle, it isn't your shocks, it is alignment.

It could be the shocks. They do lose their effectiveness over the miles, but you would be talking probably 100k or more over some seriously rough road.

 

It only has 38k miles on it. I don't have a photo of it. But its on the inner side of all 4 tires, and it goes up and down like rolling hills. I will take photos but I doubt you will be able to see.

 

Did you ever have an alignment done after the lift?

 

I bought it lifted. But since I've owned it (since 20k miles) I have not aligned it. Though I have done quite a bit of off-roading and deep snow trekking. Just aligned it today.

 

Does it look like this?


That is alignment wear. My money is that if you have the alignment checked that you will find that your toe is negative. Think of it like being duck footed while walking straight. It wears the inside edge. Now saying that all 4 are like that most likely means that you have rotated your tires at some point because you should only see that wear on the front. If your rear tires show that and you have never rotated, you have something seriously wrong.

 

Cupping is a jagged looking wear pattern that looks like a sawtooth pattern. It's occasionally an alignment issue but normally it's from a lack of rotating your tires or worn out suspension. Honestly, I can't see the suspension being the culprit unless they upped the spring rates significantly.

If you got it aligned, post up your alignment sheet. Excess negative camber or total toe-out can cause inside tire wear though typically, it will be smooth wear since it's constant.

 

All terrain or mud tires have the tendency to "cup" when not rotated regularly. I would suggest cross rotations every 5000-7000miles

 

On heavy lugged tires excessive toe starts as the heel-toe wear as pictured. It eventually wears smooth. The reason is that tires roll the direction they are pointed. With them pointed outward they roll outward then are dragged back in by strength of the suspension components and the fact that they are connected to another tire on the opposite side doing the same thing. This dragging effect over and over is what causes the scalloping.

Camber won't cause the scalloping/cupping/heel-toe (lots of words used to describe the same thing) that type of wear. Excessive camber will cause the smooth edgewear you describe, but that only occurs over 10s of thousands of miles. However, excessive camber will increase the effects of an improper toe angle.

This has nothing to do with rotation other than it gives tires an equal opportunity to wear and cross rotating will help balance the effects by changing the direction the tire is rotating. Worn suspension can definitely cause that because it will not hold an alignment and intensifies the effects with more 'slop'

 

Shocks /struts last on average 60,000 miles. Most manufacturers recommend replacing at 60,000. Sooner if you drive rough roads or go off road.

 

Trust me, everything I said is correct. I've got almost a decade in the shop, managed a tire shop for a couple years, and had an ASE master cert at one point that only lapsed because I left the industry. I've spent more of my life under an alignment rack and on a tire machine than I care to admit.

Cupping is just something you deal with on a lifted truck with AT/MT tires because it's going to happen and the more aggressive, the worse it will be. The issue being that the peaks and valleys in the tire provide different rolling resistances as the tire rotates - the more aggressive, the greater the variance. Worn out or inadequate suspension (hence my spring weight comment) exacerbate the issue by increasing the amplitude of this cycle. With that few miles, it's probably not wear unless it's been abused but it could absolutely be the stock shocks unable to handle the extra spring. Normally you don't see this in rear tires but there's several possible explanations for that.

I have almost never seen toe (or camber) cause just cupping. It also comes with significant wear that looks like alignment wear. This is why I asked for a sheet because it will be very clear if there was an alignment issue. That is the easiest problem to rule out.

Either way, no printout and no picture from OP means nobody can really give any actual cause.

 

I am confused on your statement about toe and alignment wear. Toe is what causes what is called alignment wear. They are not two separate conditions. Your assertion about different rolling resistances makes no sense either. The reason you see wear more significantly on AT/MT tires is because the blocks are larger and not connected. Also the tread depth is much greater. These large blocks are more vulnerable to wear patterns. Once the wear starts, it doesn't stop.

As I suggest to anyone that misunderstands the alignment concepts what appears to be a toy is the best demonstration tool that shows the effects of improper alignments -


I remember arguing with someone over alignment angles and what causes it because there was a time that I thought much like you. The guy grabbed the car and a piece of paper and the argument was over because you can see in black and white (literally) the effects.

 

Toe and camber both cause alignment wear. Caster is the only measurement that does not directly cause wear but it can impact cupping because it impacts the vertical movement of the tire.

We are on the same page with my resistance comment but I half-assed it and didn't phrase it right - the force against each tread block experiences is not the uniform all the way around the rotation. As a block comes into and breaks contact, in the case of taller blocks that have larger gaps between them, the leading and trailing edges experience larger changes in force that more rapidly cause the uneven wear. The outside blocks are the least supported (and protrude more on AT/MT tires) and thus show it much worse than typical all-seasons would. This all has nothing to do with alignment or even suspension, it's just the nature of these tires.

Also that toy is an abomination and is a bullshit device the big chains use to "inform" people incorrectly. It doesn't demonstrate anything but toe and it only does that half-assedly even if it's one of the better ones.

 

You have under damped suspension. The stock pin needle of a shock can’t cope with heavier rotating mass.
Imagine hitting a pot hole, there is essentially a springboard effect at the wheel due do underdamped suspension.

 

That wooden block with the o-ring tires was a sales tool for the service advisor to demonstrate how a vehicle would track if the front or rear toe in was out of alignment. It may have been supplied by Hunter Engineering. Haven't seen one of those in years. The four brackets the wheels attached to would move independently so you could demonstrate say a vehicle was "dogtracking", or the excessive rolling resistance of a vehicle with excessive front toe-in.