4x4 vs. AWD

Wrong forum.

 

I agreed with a lot of your post, for the most part. I do think you ruined it with the last sentence though (my opinion).

In terms of winter performance, the tires will have more of an impact than the drive train.

Also, if you had a reverse of the years on those vehicles you might have a different opinion. I had a 2010 Forester and a 2017 Tacoma (just ditched the Sub last year). After 100k miles on the Subaru (we started with 36k, sold at 136k), I have never owned a vehicle that required more repairs. The 2 repairs that bothered me the most was the maint item of a timing belt at 105k miles, and then head gaskets at 125k. The head gaskets have plagued a shit ton of subs for a decade, and the timing belt was updated to a chain in 2011.

In the snow and ice; with Michelin X ice tires on the sub it did out perform the Tacoma with Falken Wildpeakes. But, if the Sub was a 10/10, the Tacoma is an 8/10.

I feel I may have a similar opinion as yours if I had the older Taco and newer Sub, but in the end the Sub wasn’t the holy grail for me.

 

Hell of a first post on TW, one regarding a 2010 Tacoma (and a bunch of other stuff!) here in the third gen forum, sir. Hats off to you.

 

love these people that post about driving in snow... and they havent seen "SNOW" it can be a tricky animal from the soft white powder, to the thick slushy mush that just sticks to everything... I've seen it all, driven in all of it including snowstorms, ice storms, etc..

AWD: typically AWD systems are FWD (front wheel drive) biased meaning 70-80% of power is sent to the front drive axle, this is so that the driving and handling characteristics of the vehicle are predictable, reduced over steer, no under steer, and the rear axle kicks in more power when the computer senses a loss of traction up front. however not all manufacturers AWD systems function the same.. IMO subarus have the best AWD system available, symmetrical all wheel drive, meaning all 4 wheels are driven wheels, and yes it does have front axle biasing, but it will through a viscous coupling essentially lock in the rear axle, and give a 50/50 torque split of power to the front/rear wheels, and with the ABS system, it will lock up wheels that are slipping.. however the automatics in subarus are TRASHY CVT's..... god I hate those transmissions... typically the AWD system will run through a front transaxle, and have 3 outputs.. 2 to the front 2 wheels, and a rear output to the rear diff.. having a differential inside the transmission for the front drive line, and another differential for the rear output, and a differential at the rear axle that is indenpendant.. other AWD systems use a transfer case much like our trucks, but the transfer case has a "center diff" that allows the front and rear axles to turn at different speeds.

4x4 both front and rear axles are locked at a consistant 50:50 torque split for maximum traction, and is good for deep gearing, larger tires, and just plain simplicity. there are only 2 differentials in this setup, instead of the AWD systems 3. thypically the 4x4 systems are more robust, but lose some independant wheel control for traction aides such as traction control as the ABS, and traction control systems can now only vary the wheel speed from side to side of the vehicle, by applying braking to one wheel on each axle at a time. stil effective, but not as good in reaction time for precise adjustment in all conditions.

BOTH WILL DO EQUALLY WELL PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING:
*reduce vehicle speed.. AWD, and 4x4 dont give you license to be an idiot
*good tires- summer tires, and racing slicks will just spin.. you need decent all seasons, or even better dedicated snow tires, SNOW STUDS DO NOT INCREASE SNOW TRACTION, they merely break the surface of ice, and allow the sipping of your tire treads to attempt to get more grip.
*common sense.. if you see snow plan your route accordingly.. if you know a road is horrible with snow on it, avoid it.. go on well travelled routes.
*do not tailgate.. you may be able to get going with AWD.. but your stopping distance is still going to be longer.. plan for at least 5-6 car lengths of space at 30MPH...
*dont speed.. you are likely the one to wind up in a ditch reguardless what tire, or awd/4x4 system you have..
*get a feel for the road conditions.. every so often check your brakes, and see how your vehicle responds, if road surface conditions change, do this so you know your stopping distance, and what speed is appropriate.
*if there have been freezing temps.. watch for black ice.. typically in turns, or corners black ice will form, or even under the cover of snow it can form the slippery-est substance ever.. and typically leads into a ditch, or guardrail... major $$$.. no matter what AWD, or tires you have on your car/truck

I have driven everything from a FWD Honda accord 5 speed, to a subaru outback, forrester, 1ton GMC dually, as well as my tacoma, and a slew of other cars in snowstorms, ice storms, and went through a 39.5" snowstorm in 2013.. I have only gotten 1 of them stuck, and that was the honda accord driving during a snowstorm I hit an ice chunk on 95 going north to Bangor, ME at about 45MPH.. spun out, did a 360 into a ditch on the inner lane. was stuck in a snowbank for about an hour.. luckily, no damage.... roadway had not been plowed yet, and had about 2-3 inches of snow..

 

xD ill just say anyone who cant handle a tacoma in the snow probably needs some driving lessons. ive had seven vehicles, four were front wheel drive, the rest trucks, and the taco is the best i have had in snow so far.

Also, you should never use 4hi on the interstate or on main roads unless youre going slow and pushing through a lot of deep snow. Anywhere else, plowed or unplowed thats just a few inches or ice, use 2wd so you can feel the traction losses sooner and respond accordingly. 4WD gives people a false sense of security and by the time they realize they lost traction, they over compensate and end up worse than a car or truck in 2wd.

My sister's 2016 Rav4 was a awesome little AWD vehicle, but by the time she felt the traction loss and she over compensated, it went spining out of control. Its totaled, and she now drives a front wheel drive impala that will get her further safer on roads.

The only time my truck hits 4x4 in the winter would be messing around in deep snow or plowing, maybe on glare ice on a hill. Does no one use studded snows anymore? Those are an option too, especially for your drive wheels but your steer wheels up front are crucial too.

 

Ha, yeah, sorry, I found this thread via researching Tacoma issues and awd vs 4wd comparisons, thought I had some experience to share. I've been reading TW off and on for years, I love(d) the trucks, but I won't unabashedly talk them up because they have serious drive line problems. For what I've read, gen3 Tacomas don't sound much better when it comes to vibration. And yeah, I might prefer a new Tacoma to an older Subi, but I'd still rather have Subaru's true awd (not the computer-driven faux awd in, say, a Volvo or Audi) than a 4x4 in 95% of the situations where I'd need all 4 wheels.

 

This is largely my point in favor of any Subaru over Tacoma.

 

studded snows.. never had them... they're just noisey, and dont add traction... you can run 4x4 up to 50MPH, but gets pointless.. I only put in 4x4 if I need to climb a steep hill, or get unstuck from ice in the parking lot...

 

Reserve comment on studded snows for when youve actually owned and used them? lol

They actually do improve traction especially on ice. Snow its not a noticeable difference but any ice or even slick tarmac it is a huge improvement.

 

never needed them, I was taught how to drive in all conditions.. they are un-necessary, and are only allowable from december-may around here.. as they damage road surfaces.

 

True, there is a season limit to them but thats reasonable... I think everyone should be taught to drive with regular tires in all conditions, but that doesnt mean studded snows arent a wiser choice.

I think everyone should learn to say please, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt say thank you after as well. Dont let good be the enemy of the best!

 

Wish Tacoma/Tundra had options for full-time-4WD like the 4runners and Sequoias. No idea why they won't except for cost. I'd much rather leave it in fulltime on the highway in winter.

 

Yeah, i remember the days when i complained about how my parents car had road noise and vibrated alot (never happened) Dont use your kids as an excuse for things you dont like in a vehicle. Its very starbucks vanilla latte' of you. (basic bitch) If you dont need a truck to haul stuff around dont get a truck.

Spoken from a former subaru owner that was on his 2nd engine replacement. The interior quality of the subaru was also not as good as the toyota

 

I traded my 16 Tacoma for a 17 Outback and couldn't be happier. I may have issues coming up with hauling nasty shit around (mulch, gravel, sand, etc) since I bought a house and have some projects to tackle, but I've been very please with the Outback so far--I love the thing. Maybe I'll get a hitch installed and get one of those baby-trailers--or pay someone to deliver the stuff I mentioned earlier. Thats probably the most convenient and cost effective option.

I never get out of my Outback pissed off because it howled down the highway for the last 2 hours or rumbled to a THUNK-stop. It accelerates and shifts "gears" like a vehicle should. I got 1 recall, for a gas gauge being mis-calibrated but I haven't taken it in for that. The only other times its been to the dealership is for the "free" oil changes/maintenance that I got as part of the deal. I was at the Toyota dealership once a month (at least) with bullshit wrong with the Tacoma.

At the end of the day, get what you want, but dont pretend the Tacoma > all or that the Outback/4runner, GM twins, or Ranger dont have compelling advantages over it.

I still love the way the Tacoma looks and I'm still holding out hope that they actually fix the issues with it. Its the main reason I keep coming back to this forum every couple of months. I just dont get the feeling that this generation is going to win me back.

 

I bought a 2006 Forester new and kept it for 13 years, just sold it with 300K on the odo, loved that car. I put a hitch on it and towed a trailer when I needed to go get landscaping stuff or haul my ATV out to the bush. Awesome car for the kids learning to drive and going to the ski hill.

 

AWD or 4x4?

 

My '06 Volvo XC70 AWD with snow tires was good in snow but couldn't get up my 600' dirt driveway that turned to a sheet of ice after a rain/freeze cycle. Even after sanding the driveway I need to put chains on the Volvo.

In June I traded in my Volvo and bought a M/T Tacoma OR.

 

You can run 4x4 as fast as you want, as long as its engaged under 62mph. Practically speaking, yes...if the conditions are bad enough for it, you shouldn't be going that fast anyway.

I agree, it would be quite nice. I had an Explorer with auto 4x4, worked great. One time it really saved my ass was on the highway. It was night, 70mph limit but going 65, road was wet but temp was lingering around freezing so...Even though it seemed safe, the conditions warranted caution. Went up a hill at and saw trac light and felt the auto 4x4 engage. 200 feet later I saw 3 trucks in the ditch! Without the auto 4x4, I may have tail spun myself.

I think it's more to do with the 4WDemand system used on Tacoma / Tundra than cost. It uses a front diff disconnect, so right away with that auto 4x4 wouldn't work unless it's always engaged. Then you need a viscous transfer case, which isn't as strong or durable because it uses a clutch pack rather than direct gear engagement. Ultimately, it's all about purpose, and I think the Taco and Tundra are better suited with the more rugged / durable traditional transfer case and disconnecting diff.

They make up for it with good 2WD traction and stability control systems. Hope I never have to try them on ice though!

 

I wish I had the skill to put a gx 460 center diff in my truck in place of my transfer case.

 

Just get a Land Cruiser and have AWD and 4wd.