Tax breaks for top 1% stimulates economy??? Pffffft.

Your house was grossly overinflated by all the fools spending far more then they could afford, if is loses another 25% then it will be down to what it is really worth.

 

And unfortunately, banks knew this full well when loaning out 450k to purchase a house now worth 175k.

The most recent housing bubble (this is not the only one - remember savings and loan?) has convinced me you should NEVER own a house unless it is a rental property that you let out. ALWAYS rent and let the property owner assume the risk of equity loss due to market deflation.

Housing equity doesn't mean shit. For houses to have value, someone has to want them, just like any other illiquid asset.

 

yeah I knew that... shit sucks though... and I bought a cheap house that I could easily afford as an ensign... so now as a LT is easier, plus I have a renter... but still sucks. I bought it right before the drop

the funny thing is that I thought I was getting a good deal when I bought it 25% below asking

 

Can we have a show of hands of people on this thread that have started company's that created employment for more than 100 people?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV5hEBqYfTE?fs=1 He's Baaaaack!

 

I haven't but I know where you going with this. But I have real close friends that have probably close to 100 if not more. They didn't start their business because of tax breaks. Their business today is successful not because of tax breaks, it's because they have a product that is in demand and thier business model is working. They provide profit sharing, great medical and dental benfits and the product they produce is highly taxed and regulated. I know a couple of years ago, well about 7 years ago, they were clearing $20 million of business per month, per month, I know becasue I helped them set up their profit sharing accounts. And their personal profit was huge. For their Christmas bonuses, they gave their employees, at this point they had about 20 employees, they gave them the option of a gold Rolex or $10k cash, I shit you not. I know because I almost went to work for them but didn't becasue of moral reasons.

It is not tax breaks that made them rich, it was absolute luck in my opinion followed by hard work. My friend's dad was always looking for a "get rich quick" scheme, well he found one and it worked.

So the arguement that the rich will trickle down their richness is pure BS. It takes luck, hard work and persistence. It been stated over and over that when rich people get a tax break they save it, when middle class get a tax break they spend it. To fuel a recovery we need demand of goods and services, that is not going to happen if all the available tax break funds are sitting in a bank.

You spoke earlier about economics, it's pretty simple economics. If demand goes up than production goes up (if price is to stay the same), if production goes up than more people are employeed, then their is more money to be spent in the economy thus the economy is back in expansion mode. And even if production does not go up, than profits rise for the company at which they can hire more workforce, give salary increases for their employees and even the CEO. So IMO, by giving the larger tax break to the middle class fuels the trickle up effect. Because the trickle down effect does not work and has not worked in the past, the rich have only gotten richer and the poor poorer during that last 20 years. http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/837 this is a little old but nothing has changed except maybe the gap is larger now.

 

The Rich got Richer,the Poor got Social Programs and the Blue Collar Middle Class got screwed paying for BOTH all this BS on how the Rich pay more,Paris Hilton doesnt look like shes hurting as much as the layed off millions of Middle Class people,personaally I could give a Rats ass about the Rich,power to them they got Rich thru hard work(some) others inherited it but I really dont feel sorry for them if they get hit with a Tax increase,one more reason for a Flat Tax everyone pays the same no matter what class your in and then nobody can cry unfair. The new Battle cry for the unemployed Middle Class should be" Wheres the Green Jobs?"

 

Rich, upper middle class, etc...all this class categorizing drives me crazy. It's simple...if you own a business, big corporation or tiny llc, if you paid less in taxes, you have more to spend for your business...which is what we need in this current environment.

Besides my full time job, I do real estate investing. I buy old run down, vacant, forclosed houses, fix them up, and rent them out. I do not have any employees, but each job I contract GC's, plumbers, roofers, electricians...the works. If I was paying less in taxes (and I don't think I am rich), I could put more into my business and try to grow it more. It works no matter what scale of business you are talking about or how many employees you have. More capital means you can put it back into your business. Whether every business owner does this or not is irrelevent.

Can anyone on the other side of this argument say with a straight face that our governement is efficient, does not waste money, and couldn't cut some programs or cut spending? Gov spending is out of control. Most people I know that want taxes to get under control, it's not because they are greedy and want more, they are just tired of watching their hard earned money going to waste!!

 

I agree, but when you talk about cutting military spending (which fully 70% of the government's tax revenue goes to), suddenly no one wants to decrease spending. Meaningful reduction in government waste will not be possible without decreasing military spending. The opposing party's politicians cry foul about not supporting the troops.

Taxes do need to decrease - but for the right demographic. The middle and lower classes, not the rich.

 

There are TONS of places gov could cut spending. TONS! That is the main way to get taxes under control over the long run. In the short run, even if taxes cannot be lowered, the gov needs to not let the current tax cuts expire, which would be raising taxes. It makes NO sense to raise taxes in our current economic environment. My previous example is just that..an example of how all businesses, small and large (and mine is as small as it gets) will only be hurt by letting taxes go back up. A small business owner cannot continue to try and grow his business in an already tough economic environment if his/her taxes are going to go back up. At bare miniumum, wait a couple more years to let our economy recover before letting the tax cuts expire.

 

Were would cut? Social Security? Who uses it, retirees and the disabled.. So you are going to cut the funds for the people need it the most? Medicare/Medicaid? Who uses it, retires and the poor... So again, you want to cut funds to people that need it the most? Cut defense? I'm not a fan of that, because we need a strong military. We don't need, "wanted" wars, but we need to have the strongest military. Raise the retirement age? Yeah, lets just have people work until they die, well at least the bottom 95%, that means almost everyone on this sight, there might be a few in the 5%.

So where do the middle class win and the rich lose... nowhere.. The system is setup to favor the rich. If you cut any entitlement, the rich win because they don't need it. Do they need social security, no.. then just cut it. Medicare/medicaid.. nope cut it. Our system is setup to favor the rich. Who pays the lobbyists to lobby congressmen, senators? The rich and corporations, sure we make donations but nowhere near the amounts from the rich and corps do. It's their interests that will win, not the majority population of the US.

I think because of the national security conditions that have happened as a result of 9/11, we have no choice as a nation that, simply put is, it costs more for us to enjoy the freedoms as Americans.

I know some say cut social security, but what do you propose done with everyone that is currently on it or slated to retire in the next, well at least 25 years? Any less than that, they would not have time to save for a adequte retirement.

 

These are VERY broad categories...How about cutting ALL of the BS Pork projects that get shoved into these broad categories. How about when a bill gets passed, it only pertains to what the bill was supposed to be about. Instead, all politicians from both sides of the isle, cram as much pork as they can into a bill that has NOTHING to do with that bill. You can't tell me that the Obama care bill and the stimulus bill only contained projects and spending that pertained to health care and economic recovery.

 

I have already said cut taxes for businesses. Wealthy individuals can suck up a 3% higher tax bracket.

 

Jeff:

 

There is no differentiating b/ a small business owner (if his small business makes $250K or more) and a "wealthy individual".

 

You're right. But pork is, was and will not be limited to this administration. Pork would be a great area to cut, however, I know this first hand because of where I work now, is that corporations are the one's going to the congressmen/senators begging for the funds.

 

We agree here. I never said it was unique to either party, although Obama specifically ran on the idea that he was going to cut the pork projects. Both parties are extremely guilty of it. I'm not one of these people that just sits back and says "well, they all do it, it's just the way its done on Washington". It's absolute crap that these projects get shoved into bills at the last second and we have congress signing off on bills they've never read.

 

But you see from a congressman or senators point of view is that they get this funding for their districts that employees...voters, so why would they cut it when they probably know that it will help them get relected. I agree with you, but it a tricky situation which seems real simple but I suspect it is more complicated for our elected officials.

 

true it may not be a simple issue, but it is a fixable issue.

 

meanwhile........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_censu...2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3VzcG92ZXJ0eQ--

im sure it's just because they're all lazy though.