3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

no. these: https://www.amazon.com/BEAMTECH-Hea...ds=h11+led&qid=1572626633&s=automotive&sr=1-4

They are brighter than stock but not the halogens @crashnburn80 recommends. They have a nice color and great beam pattern as to not blind oncoming traffic. I kept my high beams stock as I do not use these much.

 

Megatron has fans in all his eyes.

 

You can even stab them through the bottom of a glass without them breaking, so you know they'll last.

 

'Actually works' isn't really being measured. Very few drop in LED companies are doing any sort of FVMSS compliance testing. Glare is light output at 1.25-2.5 degrees above the horizontal cut off at I believe 25', when projected 100+ feet that is what is blinding oncoming drivers. The short distance wall shot is an insufficient test for hazardous glare. Making LEDs wider than halogen filaments changes the geometry and causes changes in focus and increased glare in reflectors, and the problem is compounded by companies trying to make their LEDs brighter than stock, which also causes more glare. And to even further compound the issue, human eyes are 1.8x more sensitive to the short wave LED glare than longer wave halogen light. You'll notice that companies like Diode Dynamics that actually try and focus on FVMSS compliance actually do not make super bright LEDs, for the exact reasons I mention above with glare problems. They have to turn down the intensity in order to stay under the excessive glare threshold in a reflector. Of course the tests are housing specific, so while it may be below the threshold in a larger housing, smaller housing may be less forgiving as the changes in geometry are more significant. This doesn't touch on the irregular pattern intensity and poor pattern saturation often seen with LEDs in reflectors either.

No LED option will match the performance of the Lexus RX HID setup running OEM grade HIDs. It will be interesting to see how the 2020 LEDs compare to the Morimotos, I look forward to getting my hands on them.

Another quiet humorous classic case of misleading advertising by LED companies. IP65 is 'dust tight and water spray resistant'. IP65 specifically states they are not waterproof and are not suitable to be submerged.

If I had a 3rd Gen, I'd run the Philips H9s as well. For the fogs, I'd definitely go with the Rigid selective yellow over amber. The selective yellow is much higher intensity and gives excellent poor weather performance. While the color is great, the amber is a bit monochromatic to see detail and after upgrading the headlights I think you'll feel a bit underwhelmed with the output. If going with the G4s, I'd suggest white, but selective yellow will be better in poor weather. I should have the new 360s in today to test, which will mount in the OEM location. I'll post the results in the in the fog thread this evening.

 

I guess another good transition to a question for you @crashnburn80 how hard would it be to create a harness for the new LED OEM headlights? Word is that they aren't plug and play and no adapter has come to light yet similar to what the Tundra crowd did for plug and play LEDs.

 

I have not looked at the back of the lights personally, so I cannot say for certain. But the key word there is yet, see this post earlier in the thread. Looks like Rouge may be working on it. TRS has done some work, but they also sell the number one competing product.

 

Saw those are the margins may not be there for such a small albeit critical part of the assembly. I saw Meso has a pair up and running on his rig for SEMA but he went hard in the paint reworking and customizing those which probably wouldn't pertain to the casual consumer.

 

You're talking about lab testing, which is great. However, labs aren't the street, and vice versa. My statements aren't based simply on whether or not I'm getting flashed by other drivers like some people are judging glare by. I can see with my own eyes where my cutoff line is, and whether or not that line is above or below someone's eyes or mirrors. I can also use my own judgement as a "garage engineer" to see if the light that may be hitting eyes is enough to impare vision. In the case of my bike, there is very little light above the cutoff line, and the cutoff line is below line of sight for all but the lowest mirrors when I'm on their bumper (or uneven ground).

On the flipside, the stock LEDs in my Fusion were always getting me flashed. Understandably so, too. The uplight on those, which I presume was in compliance with the FPVVLX7NINER testing, was bright AF compared to any of my vehicles that have the cheap, crappy, dangerously illegal drop-in bulbs.

My point is that I haven't seen any actual testing done that shows all LEDs have excessive glare in any particular housings. I've seen one that shows some of the obviously bad ones do, and one that shows the H9 bulbs do. I haven't seen one specific to the bulbs that look to be the LED drop-in leaders. I've seen my own examples that almost completely eliminate uplight due to (assuming) the blade design. Without seeing specific testing, all you can do is assume. Making recommendations against, dismissing, or bashing based on assumptions or generalizations is rather unfair. That's the type of thing that lead my girlfriend's mom to tell me she'd never get a 4runner "...because Toyotas break down all the time. No way."

Considering how few roads there are on the planet with less than those few degrees of gradient that separate "compliant" from "blinding," I personally think it's pretty nit-picky to use that particular specification as a deal breaker. That's still assuming they aren't in compliance, too, which I have yet to see being tested.

I'm not an actual engineer, though, so I clearly can't be taken seriously. There's no way I would know what is or isn't going to cause unsafe driving conditions in my line of work as a non-engineer. Feel free to disregard whatever I have to say because science and compliance. I must be the one fluke outlier example of drop-in LED bulbs that improve my vision, look good, and should theoretically last a long time, all while not being bothersome to other drivers. I'll see myself out.

 

I tried HID in my truck and settled on the GE Megalight. Factory LEDs aren't that great either, my Acura TLX with the jewel eye LED (actually researched, designed and built for an actual LED light) has fantastic color and cutoff but the low beams are only good for what's directly in front of you about 30 yards and the high beams absolutely SUCK for distance projection. These are headlights designed and produced by a large manufacturer for a luxury car. Even car manufacturers can get it wrong, for instance, my 10 year old son and I can pick out a late model Toyota Corolla or a Chevy truck from a mile away in the dark because we are absolutely blinded, but that's only if we get through the brigade of slack jawed morons equipped with drop in LEDs in a reflector housing. I think automatic leveling should be required, much like BMW does.

 

Believe it or not, I did not start these threads to bash people or have them see themselves out. I've started all these lighting threads at non-trivial personal expense to help inform and educate others. I think some feel frustrated at times when the lighting science does not coincide with their personal views, and rather than inspect and adapt mentality they adopt an abort this discussion mentality.

Yes, believe it or not 1-3 degrees above the cut off matters, significantly. While you might consider that road surface makes that delta unimportant, you are basically saying it is ok to blind people all the time vs when high rises in the road exist that raises a cut off above the oncoming drivers field of vision at distance. That isn't how headlights work. You are underestimating how far headlights shine vs the change in degree of their orientation and the affects to oncoming traffic at distance. I've already expressed numerous times in this thread, I am not the one to follow for FMVSS compliance patterns, that is a PITA and not something I am at all interested in performing or sharing. I've specifically limited scope in this thread to projector applications where glare isn't an issue. I've pointed to resources to where you can follow others that do FVMSS compliance testing if interested in LEDs in reflector housings. And if you followed them, you'd see the tests those others have run have shown drop in LEDs in reflector housings to produce illegal excessive levels of glare based on the FVMSS testing. This isn't being "nit-picky", it is tested SAE compliance fact. Again, don't take my word for it, follow others that do FVMSS testing, and they will give you data clear as day that counters your views. If you want to try and counter factual scientific data on glare and uplight, that would be the appropriate venue.

 

Because they havent been tested yet. Im sure they'll be lackluster just like those sealed $1200 aftermarket ones the manufacturer refused to release beam pictures for that all the raptorlight fanboys were clammoring over until crash tested them.

 

i love my led lights...

 

I specifically stated in my post that I'm not basing my claims on that

 

Hey everyone, just a friendly reminder that anecdotal evidence and emotional attachments are not equivalent to measurements and scientific gathering of data.

 

While yours was the one post quoted, it wasn't all directed at you. I appreciate your (semi) objective approach. You dont neccessary bash or play the "I'm an engineer" card. Other people do that on your behalf, though, and it's ridiculous. One thing you are guilty of, though, is generalizing. You make blanket statements that may not be true for all LEDs. Sure, LEDs dont fit the exact dimensions of a halogen filament. That is a fair blanket statement. What may NOT apply to all LEDs is how those out of spec dimensions will affect different housings. From what I have seem in my own experience in my own applications is that the thickness of the blade (diode separation) only affects the horizontal focus, and has no impact on the vertical focus of the beam, which shouldn't increase glare at all. As far as the importance of 1-3 degrees; there is a 300% difference there. I've seem some people here actually encourage others to aim their lights higher because -gasp- the OEM aimed them well below the compliance level. Again, not all cars are the same, and not all housings are the same. One degree in one car may be a retina searing change in one car, while another car may actually benefit from a 2 degree change, while still being in compliance.

As far as the other testing that you're talking about, I missed any links you may have given, and google isn't helping me find any tests done on any of the bulbs I'm familiar with.

 

If you're implying that my statements are any more based on anecdote than anyone else's regarding the glare of any of the specific bulbs I've mentioned, please, I emplore you to direct me to the scientific evidence that shows those bulbs having unacceptable levels of glare.

 

I am going old school when my 2020 arrives

 

I'm not implying anything other than what I just said.

 

Finally got around to ordering the Phillips H9s and the harness extension to mod. What sold me on modding the extension was being able to swap in the bulbs from the high beams in a pinch if needed, essentially having two back up bulbs always on board. Thanks for the research Crash.