Toyota charging me $$$ for frame replacement.

are the $3500 in parts at retail of dealer cost? If at dealer cost then to make it pallatable look at it as a deductable, pay the piper and drive the truck til the wheels fall off, either way, you have a hell of a story to tell.

 

I just read through this and can't believe you weren't handed some kind of list of parts that went on the truck at some point.
I can't think of a place that makes you pay for stuff that was done without telling you what it was?
For the price to go from 5k to 3500 now and the alternator etc.. I feel they are making it up and seeing what you will pay cause of the hassle.

I wouldn't do a thing without seeing an itemized list, and maybe go take some pictures all around and underneath the truck and let them see you do it so they know you are looking into it.
Heck, you could yourself make an itemized list of all that stuff and if it is alot less, use that as a basis for legal action cause they can't just charge you whatever they feel like it and then magically reduce it with no evidence.

 

Isnt a contingency only relavent if it would be expecting a settlement like a car accident case? I assume if I get a lawyer it would be to help me minimize/eliminate the parts charges they are trying to stick me with not that I would be actually getting any money out of them. Or are you suggesting I could look into making a further claim based on the whole mishandling of the frame replacement? I was remodeling/building an old rural house out on the coast we bought and trying to start a boutique landscaping business both of which Ive had to put on hold this last year and a half without a truck and move back to Portland for work in the city. Not sure I could easily monetize losses associated with that or blame Toyotas mismanagement, but it has been a really extreme pain in the ass to have to fight and be fucked around for over 2 years to get this job done.

I did find a sample letter about the recalled spare tire carrier and it says that "if you feel the dealer has failed or is unable to remedy the defect within a reasonable time you may submit a complaint to the Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration... or call the Vehicle Safety Hotline" this definitely has not been a reasonable time.

 

Like I said, starting an official complaint would get the process rolling quickly and it appears to have worked.

Since you also requested further communication be in email you need to start sending a daily status request to both the service manager and the Toyota Customer rep you spoke with.

Parts wise you'll need to be adamant in requesting a FULL explanation as to why EACH part was replaced. A battery and alternator let alone an exhaust have nothing to do with a frame replacement and affect the process in absolutely no way possible (this makes me concerned that they are trying to rack up charges). If anything the battery failed from having sat so long and could have been recharged or reconditioned based on the fact you said it wasn't old.

Stick with it. Don't let them push you around but you must be adamant and undeterred. Constant pressure and confidence is key.

For thousands of dollars I'd fight tooth and nail and make a scene at their store as well as hammer their review sites. I've worked in the auto repair industry and don't wish unwarranted overreactions by stupid customers whatsoever (I've had to deal with it multiple times firsthand) but this case is clearly an outlier and calls for escalated yet rational measures.

 

I called the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and just asked what sort of options I would have in this situation and if they could refer me to the right sort of regultory agency that could help. They said they deal with reporting unsafe vehicles, recall repairs that are still unsafe, and if the appropriate parts to fix the vehicle are not available. They said I should call the Oregon Department of Justice Consumer Protection department. I already filed a report with them but Im gonna try to get through to someone on the phone tomorrow.

I also called a lawyer today that specializes in lemon laws but they wont take the case because they deal with new car issues. I talked to a consumer fraud attorney who said that I might have a case but its not one that he would take and recommended I contact a law firm down on salem called isuecardealers.com. Ill call them tomorrow. He also suggested the small claims court route.

Got an email back from the dealership service manager saying "As soon as the alternator comes in I can finish my parts and send you a copy of all the parts that are replaced that would not be included in the warranty." Still didnt mention sending me a copy of anything Ive signed.

With the small claims court, I assume I would have to sign to get my truck back and pay first, and then go to court to dispute the charges for reimbursement. Im worried about what I would have to sign... that it would be agreeing to the charges and negate any ability to dispute them afterwards.

 

Suing for settlement is exactly what you would be doing, but not for damages - that would be a waste of time. You would have to prove substantial detriment to your life/livelihood, and their attorneys could simply attack your request as frivolous. All you would be asking for would be for the dealer to absorb all costs associated with repair, as well as attorney fees, both of which would be completely reasonable requests given the blatantly excessive repair time, unauthorized work, poor communication, etc. Like I said before, it just depends what your state laws are, what agreements you signed, etc. but if it's really gone on like you said, it sounds like you have a pretty good foot in the door to at least talk to someone and explore legal options. Might take some legwork to find someone, but for what they've put you through, it's worth the effort imo.

I'd like to add, you might have better luck with smaller firms/younger attorneys since they're going to be more eager for work. Doesn't mean they aren't competent, just not as established or discriminate.

 

When you do pick it up just make sure you read what you sign. Wouldn't want them slipping you a work authorization thinking it was some kind of receipt. If you are concerned about it when the time comes make sure you write on what you are signing that it is not an authorization approving the charges and have the service manager sign it and make you a copy.

 

naw. I wouldn’t worry too much. Definitely read what you’re signing and ask why but the dealer knows what they did.

you can argue that in a court of law and win. You can’t screw someone like that and then after the fact try and get someone to sign away their rights to sue. You’d have to do that up front and even then those waivers get thrown out all the time.

 

THIS is the best thing that I have heard from you so far! Like I said, stick to your guns; unless you AUTHORIZED IN WRITING the replacement parts, TOYOTA (dealership) is liable. They might not like paying the bill, but it is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY (the dealership) to attempt to get reimbursed by Toyota Corporate for the parts that they arbitrarily installed WITHOUT you knowledge OR consent (in writing). Even if it was done by an outsourced shop, the dealership that was in charge of the frame replacement is the primary contractor.

Granted, there "may" have been parts (that weren't covered under warranty) that literally fell off from being SO rusty, but they STILL must get your permission to replace them. They cannot charge ANYTHING for labor, because (under warranty) they had to remove and re-install those parts anyway to get to the frame and replace it.

 

OP thanks for posting all this and please keep updating.

I have zero advice but am fascinated by your experience

 

Ok I got the final parts list a while back, which originally came with no explanations. I wrote the service manager a lengthy email explaining my concerns and asking a few questions...
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Synopsis my email to service manager:
Im frustrated that it seems that the decisions to replace non covered parts were based on the mechanics job being easier to do by just ordering and putting new parts back on instead of carefully removing, cleaning and replacing the original parts. I dont like feeling as if im responsible to pay for a bunch of parts the mechanic broke off the truck because he wasnt careful and didnt want to deal with.

My questions to service manager:
Can you explain what each of the major noncovered parts are that were replaced and how those decisions were made to replace them with new parts?
Why did we need to wait until the very end of the work to be privy to an accurate estimate of overages on parts we were going to be charged for?
Why was I not given any choice to authorize excess parts during this job, let alone informed which parts would need to be added as the job went along?
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It took a while to get a response, but around this time my consumer complaint to the Oregon Department of Justice which detailed how long this whole process has taken, how I wasnt communicated with etc etc was forwarded to Toyota Mcminnville. The service manager drafted a response to me regarding my previous email, which he also forwarded as part of his defense to the DOJ.
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Service Managers Response to DOJ
This has been a very long process and our intent has always been to make sure that we do the very best to take care of our customer. We have made sure that the customer has had transportation, at our expense, throughout this whole process as none of this was her fault. It is important to note that we must make every effort to make sure that the customer's vehicle is a safe and dependable vehicle when she picks it up.
I hope you understand that in doing a job like this, frame replacement, there is no possible way that any type of accurate estimate of additional repairs can be made ahead of time. Very much like repairing mold or dry rot in a home. Once the job is started the unknowns that you run into have to be repaired correctly to finish that job in the proper way.

Service Managers Response to me
My apologies for just sending you a list with no explanation of what those parts were for. I have attached the list again with the component system that those parts are for.
There are brake components that are mostly hardware and brackets. The biggest part of the expense comes from the exhaust system which had to be completely replaced. those parts were also not able to be used again due to them breaking or crumbling while taking them apart. You had mentioned that The exhaust included everything starting from where it bolts on to the exhaust manifold to the catalytic converters to the muffler to the last exhaust pipe and all of the hangers and hardware. There were suspension parts that the bolt portion of the part broke off while attempting to dis-assemble requiring replacement.
All parts that have been replaced are replaced because they either broke or had to be cut or chiseled off of the old frame rendering them unusable. And they have been replaced with factory parts, It has always been my intent to keep your cost to a minimum. The parts replaced on your truck are what was needed to put your truck back to being a safe vehicle to drive and are not included in the frame replacement recall. Every attempt to save parts to be reused was made and this was not a case of just ordering parts because it would be easier.
I am sorry that this took such a long time and I am very sorry for any inconvenience this has caused. I tried to minimize that by making sure you had a safe and dependable vehicle to drive while yours was down.
When all of this started you mentioned to me that you had been to another dealer and it seemed like they just didn't want to help you. You opened up a case with Toyota to express your concerns with the vehicle and the fact that it seeme that nobody would help you with this warranty inhancement for rust. When we looked at your vehicle we found that it did qualify for repair as per the parameters of the bulletin. Some confusion as to cold weather states, and previous registration locations that qualified the truck for frame replacement. It was a long time between then and when the vehicle actually got to the dealership for the repairs to be started. We had discussed the fact that there might be additional expense that you would be responsible for and you asked for a list and cost. At that time we looked at the truck and was unable to make that determination. We had to disassemble to see what would hold up and what would not and need to be replaced. I told you that I would do whatever I could to minimize your expense. We agreed to move forward.
We sublet the frame replacement to Precision Body and Paint who, after some time, moved the job to one of there other shops, Jerry's custom Paint and Collision.
They performed the repairs, I was given a preliminary list and as the job and disassembly continued the parts required continued to grow.All of which was necessary to do the frame replacement correctly..
Once again I apologize for any and all of the inconvenience this has caused you.
I wish there would have been a way to know what would have been needed without having to go piece by piece while disassembling the vehicle. It has never been our intention to create such a long and stressful time for you. But safety and dependability is always our main concern and all the work completed and parts replaced were necessary to accomplish that.
Your truck is now completed and ready to be picked up.
I have a total of $3758.16.
I have attached the parts list as explained above that are not
covered in the Toyota Warranty enhancement.

Please let me know when you plan on picking it up
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They all thought they were gonna get a big old piece of the pie. Due to the dealership not doing this correctly, he's on the hook for those parts. Dealership service dept doesnt have your authorization to install the above and beyond parts included with the frame replacement. Had they attempted to contact you, left you voice mails or sent emails with those things like they were supposed to, things could be a bit different.
What are you wanting to do? Are you wanting opinions on the parts list? Like if it's exaggerated and ridiculous stuff they ordered just to make their job easier, etc?

 

The price of the exhaust system blows my mind. Does that even include a muffler and converter?

 

Sad to see an owner be taken through something like this. Makes me want to sell mine.

 

It does. 17410-0C041 is the cat and 17405-0C060 is the muffler.

I would argue to them that $3000 for OEM exhaust parts is ridiculous that it's unreasonable to just assume that you'd consent to that as part of the frame replacement. You could have had an independent shop install a new exhaust setup for a third of that price probably. Do you have any pictures of your exhaust before you brought it in? If you could prove that it wasn't falling apart it would help your case. I bet it was rusted and they just started cutting stuff instead of trying to preserve parts.

 

Maybe ask for parts to be sold at dealer cost. That would be somewhat of a fair resolution.

 

I only threw in the 3 big cost items from the exhaust into the internets pricing to see if they were jacking you around on that. It doesn't look like they marked those up. The exhaust looks to 3000 of the bill. The Y pipe collector thingy is hella expensive and the shops usually try to repair that rather than replace. So it's tough to say if things needed replacing without seeing them but it is safe to say they didn't do the typical ridiculous dealership markup on the big cost exhaust items

 

I would say the biggest issue here is that they didn't contact you for consent as this list grew. IMO I'd keep the claim open and have them eat the whole cost because you didn't agree to it and they never contacted you for consent or even to let you know as it was happening. They should have let you know and they should have asked, cause what if you're unable to pay? That's their negligence.

 

Yeah this ^^^^^. I've seen enough Judge Judy to be dangerous and fight for my rights and not get pushed around

 

My understanding is that the parts list is at cost. Thats the shift from the ~$5000 down to ~$3700.

Any opinions on the parts list could be helpful. Im not a mechanic so I dont know what to make of it.

Also i dont have photos of the exhaust system previously, but in this case wouldn't be on them to prove it needed replacing instead of me to prove it didnt?