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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Nov 21, 2019 at 12:07 PM
    #2001
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    But it does show that the HID’s throw potentially “usable” light a lot farther down the road, doesn’t it? I’m not speaking of quality. Just the simple ability to throw light much farther.

    Am I wrong in this observation?
     
    Joe671 and TimC like this.
  2. Nov 21, 2019 at 12:33 PM
    #2002
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    While very cool looking, the issue is the exposures are different, leading to different perceived performance of the lights due to changes in the camera. It isn't an apples to apples comparison, as you are changing two variables at once, the lights and the camera shot. I've challenged some LED companies on this before with before/after types of photos as not being an accurate representation of the products performance and why I use side-by-side images in my performance based photos so that the camera factor is accounted for. A better representation to reduce the camera effect would be two trucks side by side in the same photo, that way the exact same camera settings are used in the photo to capture each light source. Even that is imperfect though as whiter light sources often appear looking brighter in photos than warmer light sources, which is why using tools to measure intensity as part of testing is important.

    Here is a copy/paste of a post of mine on this exact topic.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Let me provide an example of why this type of comparison is unjust.

    Light set 1
    [​IMG]

    Light set 2
    [​IMG]

    Looking at these images, Light set 2 is the clear obvious winner for output. However, both these photos are actually the exact same lights, with photos taken under the exact same conditions, with the same camera, from the same position, within seconds from each other. The only difference is aperture setting from the camera looking ever so slightly in one direction vs another for focus causing drastic differences in perceived output. It is for this reason that I use side-by-side comparison photos in my reviews to eliminate camera bias as much as practical.
     
  3. Nov 21, 2019 at 12:44 PM
    #2003
    Sasquatchian

    Sasquatchian Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are wrong. As Crash illustrated above, a simple exposure difference drastically affects your visual perception. You can tell by looking at the surrounding rooftop areas on the drone shots. Some are much lighter than others. That alone should be your clue. I just downloaded four of those drone images to look at the metadata in Adobe Bridge, but, alas, anything related to exposure, white balance and ISO has been stripped out. In order to make a useful comparison, you have to shoot the respective images with all manual settings in the camera, preferably in RAW format and process each file identically to make sure there are no other processing variables introduced to color the process.
     
  4. Nov 21, 2019 at 4:48 PM
    #2004
    Redline870

    Redline870 Well-Known Member

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  5. Nov 21, 2019 at 4:51 PM
    #2005
    Redline870

    Redline870 Well-Known Member

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    LOL!! I do the same thing!! You can always tell the idiots who just toss an LED in a reflector housing with the insane amount of glare it produces. I always turn my high beams on for those ass hats.
     
  6. Nov 21, 2019 at 6:05 PM
    #2006
    abhamber

    abhamber Well-Known Member

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    This is fair, and also the reason why I would have loved to compare the shots with no snow on the ground.

    The drone shots are taken in a RAW format and exported as a JPEG file. I can definitely do these shots again and manually dial in exposure, white balance, etc. for a more apples to apples comparison.
     
  7. Nov 21, 2019 at 6:14 PM
    #2007
    Sasquatchian

    Sasquatchian Well-Known Member

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    Not only do the exposures have to match, but all raw processing parameters have to identical as well. No auto-adjustments of any sort. Some raw processors allow that with more ease than others. I use Capture One primarily but Adobe products will allow that as well. Usually it's a matter of copying and pastings all settings, but something like Adobe Camera Raw easily allows you to use a dropdown menu command called "Previous Conversion" which will apply the exact parameters. It's not that you can't make appropriate adjustments, it's that all the files need the same ones.
     
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  8. Nov 21, 2019 at 6:21 PM
    #2008
    abhamber

    abhamber Well-Known Member

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    Awesome! Thanks for advice! I'll be sure take note of that! I use Adobe Lightroom to convert RAW image formats into JPEG. I'll dial in the drone camera manually and make sure there is consistent processing.
     
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  9. Nov 21, 2019 at 6:41 PM
    #2009
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Hikari has several models, so even though they are an H11 maybe you did not use the same model. Or maybe you didn't not have the bulb installed with emitters at 3 and 9 o'clock, as the base is adjustable. These specific ones are scientifically measured to produce more light intensity than stock, and better than every other drop in LED I have tried. If you think these are poor, other LEDs will be a major let down.
     
  10. Nov 21, 2019 at 8:00 PM
    #2010
    Redline870

    Redline870 Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected, these are the ones I tried and returned:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LCE19OI?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
     
  11. Nov 21, 2019 at 8:39 PM
    #2011
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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  12. Nov 21, 2019 at 10:17 PM
    #2012
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I was thinking the same. The Hikari Ultras are a definite upgrade over stock.

    I'm curious to see how those GTR bulbs in HR's video actually do. The emitter looks pretty big, but if it is indeed that much more intense, it might do well in a projector as their "test" indicates. It might also just be that everything it was compared to is garbage as well. :notsure:

    Is that the other bulb you got along with the 2-stroke, by chance?
     
  13. Nov 21, 2019 at 10:51 PM
    #2013
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    No, the two bulbs I got at the moment were the 2-stroke and the BeamTech. I still need to test out the 2-stroke. If someone had the GTRs, I'd be happy to test them.
     
  14. Nov 22, 2019 at 5:37 AM
    #2014
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    Oh, right. I think you did say that.

    Hey. Someone go out and pay $200 for LEDs that may or may not suck, and will almost certainly not perform any better than a $80 Amazon bulb (or $7 OEM H9 for that matter) so Crash can test it. Lol.
     
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  15. Nov 22, 2019 at 3:03 PM
    #2015
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I do have those latest gen Philips passively cooled bulbs coming from Japan, which should be here in the first week of Dec. They take so long to get here I almost forgot about them!
     
  16. Nov 23, 2019 at 12:43 PM
    #2016
    replica9000

    replica9000 Das ist no bueno

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    crashnburn80[OP] likes this.
  17. Nov 23, 2019 at 11:48 PM
    #2017
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    :bananadead: I also like how 'flashing' is a fourth color.

    I covered these in the original thread:

    Some manufactures have started to launch multi-color-changing LED fog/headlights, claiming you can now switch colors on the fly by switching your lights on/off several times, and this is beneficial. Unfortunately these products are far worse performing than a dedicated single color LED (which is often already bad), as neither color LED light source is positioned on center, making the origination of the light source off in multiple axis, causing severe negative effects on performance and significant increases in glare in reflectors. No reputable manufacture offers such a product. You can see one such product and how it performs in post #23 here.
     
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  18. Nov 24, 2019 at 11:27 AM
    #2018
    G8trwood

    G8trwood Member

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    Fantastic thread. Looking to update some of the family fleet as we are getting (cough) old. F150, Taco, CRV. I wish they all had lights as good as my nieces cheap Corolla, those lights rock.

    I do a lot of night driving on country roads. The Phillips bulb gave me less than nine months so looking at other options if available. I was thinking of the DD until I saw this. I did notice that XD is listing “Phillips Glass” in the description of their extreme HID conversions. Is that just marketing or did they go back the better bulbs? Is HID going the way of the dodos and everything is LED, LED? Looking for good reliable light at distance not 20’ from a white door.

    Just trying to figure out a general way to go or if every car reflector will be different.

    Awesome discussion and thanks! :thumbsup:
     
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  19. Nov 24, 2019 at 11:57 AM
    #2019
    Lionfishtaco

    Lionfishtaco Member

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    This thread is pretty incredible... Truly appreciate all of the time and knowledge that has gone into this. I've read pretty much all of this thread over the last few weeks but it is soo long that it is hard to determine what is the best overall choice if somebody wants to use an led to get a better light than stock with the added longevity benefits of led. I'm guessing the OP still likes the hikari's? I get the drawbacks of led bulbs in the projector housing but are they at least better than stock?

    Thanks again! Great thread!
     
    crashnburn80[OP] likes this.
  20. Nov 24, 2019 at 2:13 PM
    #2020
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Welcome! 9 months isn't long, but on the other hand the bulbs are really cheap and you could buy many years of bulbs before equaling the cost of a decent LED or HID. But there is obviously the inconvenience of having to change the bulb.

    XD does offer a Philips capsule and their own brand. The Philips version is substantially higher performing as covered in the output charts in the original thread. However, halogen housings are designed for uplight to illuminate overhead signs, including halogen projectors. HIDs being substantially brighter also make the uplight from a halogen housing substantially brighter, causing significant glare to oncoming drivers. LEDs point to the sides of the projector housing and actually reduce uplight, which is also not a good thing. The correct way to run HIDs is using non-rebased HIDs bulbs (like D2S bulbs) is in an appropriate HID projector. The correct way to run LEDs for best performance is switch to a housing that was designed for them, like the Morimoto XB LED assemblies, or the new 2020 Toyota LED headlights, though both very expensive. The best drop in LED replacements I've tested are the Hikari's referenced in post #3 (or at the bottom of this post), though product longevity may be questionable.

    While each vehicles headlights may be different, smaller light sources lead to better focus and enhanced projection in all light assemblies. The effect is more magnified on smaller assemblies like projectors. In reflector assemblies, glare from LED or HID sources is a significant hazard as the reflector assemblies do not have a light shield like a projector, even though the halogen projector also allows a small amount of uplight by design.

    If you want LEDs for better performance than stock, the best option is the Morimoto XB LED headlight assemblies. If you are looking for a replacement LED the Hikaris are the best performing LED I have tested. Again, I cannot speak for product quality/longevity, but the optical design and performance is good and an improvement over stock. You can see all the details in the Hikari post:

    Hikari Ultra "Eyes of Megatron" H11/H9 LEDs
    See the original review in post #1608 here.
     

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