Cannot remove rear rotted drums. Any tricks? Need to replace fuel lines + fittings + wheel clyinder

The biggest problem here for me was at first not having the M8 bolts to force the drum off the hub and break the rust bond.
Second biggest problem was Tacoma videos allegedly for my year and 4x4 that showed completely different levers and locations where to push the levers off.
If you can't see into that tiny hole, and all you're looking at is wrong information you fish in the wrong spot.

Also, there's no way I could have gotten the wheel cylinder out without bolt extractors. Those two bolt's metal was such a joke and there's no way to remove it with a 10mm socket. (Maybe I could have angle ground off the heads very carefully with a mostly used up cutoff wheel so it was small diameter but I'm not so sure that would have ended well with little clearance around the bolt heads). I don't know what people do here for that big problem.

A small screwdriver works extremely well for me on this one, a thin rod could be great too.
Sure, I agree what you work on helps. I've done every single thing there is to disc brake systems and machined fixes to rare ones etc... so that helps me fly through any of those repairs and I can jump from marque to marque as they're all so similar.
These drums finally don't seem so alien to me. But there are a lot of parts in there and springs etc... Discs seem simpler.

And naturally we're not even discussing braking performance.

 

In the future, that little star wheel (assuming it ain’t as rusted as everything else on your truck) will only turn in one direction freely. Once this is determined you jam something in there to push the lock arm aside and turn it the opposite way till it stops. Then beat the sides of the drums to kick the now loose shoes around. Sorry you had such a fit. Look on the bright side, my Stepson wasn’t there making things mucho worso. And... each time you moved the bellcrank you actually tighten the brakes... but now you know and knowing is half the battle

 

Thanks. Yes, I don't have a stepson here to make things worse, lol. Do you think he really could have made this worse and take longer? (He would have to have some skills to accomplish that, heh).
I did not know that about the bellcrank either, thanks for that tip.
At one point, I am pretty sure I was able to turn the star adjuster both directions. Even with the drum removed it could travel a little anyway in either direction before one way really jammed up on that lever. So that confused me a little as well.

 

If my Stepson was “helping” you I’m fairly sure you would have doused the truck in acetone and tossed a match at it. Drum brakes only look complicated, once you mess w/ them they are a breeze.

 

I know this is not going to help you but the rear brake drum issue was one of the reasons I decided to give up on my 97 Tacoma when it only had about 320 thousand miles on it. The rear brakes were original and like many other things like knowing the bolt to hold the alternator would break off if the alt failed I didn't really want to cut the drum off with a torch. What I have posted comes from year of working on these things most times it worked in the case of the 97 it didn't. When my 2011 was new (like 3,000 miles) I removed the rear drums liberally coated the axle and the drum center with anti seize so maybe I'll be able to get them off some day. It's a bitch living in winter salt country.

 

Keep them clean... I live in NH, mine ain’t rusty.... undercarriage maintenance is mandatory here. High pressure wash (manually, on hands and knees once a month and oil the crap out of everything w/ wd-40 twice a year till it’s dripping on disposable drop cloth.... best thing you can do for them...but.... if you are gonna work on the rusty ones, get a oxyacetylene set up. Even a pony set...and an ABC rated fire extinguisher, you would be surprised how easily things come apart when bright orange...

 

That's probably good advice. I may need to get a real torch soon.
Salt country is a p.i.t.a.
We just got a 800 ft lb impact air gun yesterday for the bad projects.
The frame was replaced on this truck about 6-7 years ago so that has made some of this all much much better. Like for example it was all new brake lines from the front to the back where they split to both rear drums.
But I've noted that the brake lines at the rear have been replaced at least 2x before, so they're not even original and the salt in NH (and VT farm where this truck came from) eats this all alive.

My Dad elected to coat the underside with oil, but my gripe with that (aside from the payment to a mechanic) was that everything was oily / wet under there now and it's much harder to see if anything is leaking and isolate source.
And I will likely coat the drum to hub area with copper anti seize just in case these ever have to come off again.

This truck was given (for free) to my cousin from his Uncle who worked on an organic farm in Northern VT. It was parked - at least for 6+ years - next to the driveway, in other words on soil. So the moisture just kept coming out of the ground and attacked all the metal in sight. Maybe the fertilizers used exacerbated the metal decay too.

The gas tank is the scariest looking thing on this truck. Frankly, I'm amazed it still holds fuel.
I have a used back up loaded with all parts tank I got 3 years ago, but the rust / rot thing is so bad... fear of poking the bear in the eye...

 

Despite all this, I'm just about done with this hunk of shit.
I'm sick of every damn thing fighting me and I'm over it.
I don't need to spend a week to change f-ing brakes out.


of course the hunk of sh*t main brake line won’t budge. Of course it won’t. cheapass tin pot hunk of sh*t .5 cent metal ass harvested from Indian scrap yards from abandoned tankers from 80 years ago sh*t metal.

Every single brake line 'clamp' is destroyed. The brackets too. Not one will release. Vaporized drum pin in the front shoe, horrible bellcrank in shambles on the side I haven't even got to with bent pins and rot everywhere. I'm not touching that p.o.s. So clearly I was working on the one that was 'fixed' before.

 

Take a break from it so you can cool off. We've all been there, and it's easy to get frustrated. I once did a full rebuild on my drum brakes only to have them fail on my first test drive, bathing the insides of the rear wheels in brake fluid (and that was just the beginning of my odyssey).

Walk away for a little while and get back at it. You can get it done and get that Taco back on the road.

 

Thanks, yeah I got back into the house and hosed it down with PB Blaster (again). Might wait 2-3 hours and see how mad I get back out there.
It's just... insane. How horrible it is to work on this. And it's only a '03, not like some 50-60s classic car or something that sat in a field.

 

It's actually very easy to work on if you're not in a rust prone area and the previous owner cleaned and took care of the under chassis.

 

Im assuming you bought a brake hardware kit for it, the bell crank can be freed up or replaced... hang in there!!! You can doooo it

 

Lol, you could go pick up an entire resr end for it at that Tacoma junkyard there in Vermont... the name escapes me but it’s out by Claremont NH border... swap the whole mess... ehhhhhh

 

Hmm. That's an interesting idea. Of course, I'd have to actually be able to disconnect all the connectors to the rear end.
And yeah, I had a California only '98 Ford econoline. No rust, no problems. Bolts just came out under normal torque.
I got really nothing for disconnecting that brake line distribution point (3 way valve which splits off the front brake hose to the two rear metal lines). I mean I just don't have a way to separate that. I thought if it was maybe a metal line I could saw it off and then install new fittings and flare the line (not that I've ever flared a tube but whatever), but that won't work with a flexible hose.

I did get a hardware kit, as the cups were destroyed and the pins so figured I needed that too.

 

If you hold off and go to the Home Depot, get yourself a mapp gas torch, heat the crap out of it, soak it w/ penetrant and slowly crack the lines back and forth ( with a 10mm flare nut/tubing wrench) it will come loose. * not an open end! Abort mission till you get some heat. Propane doesn’t count. Make sure to have an extinguisher

 

Ok, good consider. I may have to go do this.
However, I don't have a flare nut wrench, and I cannot get one anywhere without special order.
That brake fitting size however is kind of good as it's a 17mm female fitting onto that 3 way valve. It won't budge so far.

It's full of weepy brake fluid. Would I have to worry about torching that area?

 

You will be sorry if you don’t. Good luck!

 

Anyone replaced the main brake flex line that terminates at that "3 way brake tube" at the rear?
I read here it's possible to wiggle it in around the gas tank. I am not sure where it starts at up front, and if it might be better protected from salt etc...
Perhaps I'm better off fighting the fight there and simply chopping off everything in the rear and throwing those parts out.

I also read that Toyota over cranks on their flared brake lines and apparently even a new truck is sometimes extremely difficult to disconnect the fittings.

 

@GreenMM as with all used vehicles, there will be some headaches. I think you need a day break, too many responses to your own thread and thoughts flying through your brain.

One thing to keep in mind when looking for videos or manuals. unless the truck is SPECIFICALLY 03-04 Tacoma it will be different for about 25% of what's on the truck. 95-02 Tacoma and 96-02 T4R had the E-brake bell crank "above" the axle housing. only 03-04 have it below. thus the difference in how the star bolt operates. depending oh how used those rear drums were the rust "lip" or ridge on the inside could have been pretty significant, which prevented the drum from sliding off once loose. you could get them out a little and jam a flat blade screwdriver in there and run it around the inside lip to see if any rust breaks off, lessening the ridge/lip.

another trick I've learned (I take off my drums once every 1-2 years to inspect and clean) is to use a wire wheel around the hub portion on the axle, thus removing the stuck or loose rust. THEN douse with PBlaster at intervals. This allows faster penetration at the joint around the hub. you could also spray inside the holes where the "removal bolts" would screw in, that would allow it to soak down and around.

one final tip, do not "bathe" the hub and drum in anti-sieze, it's not worth it. put a thin amount around the hub and in between the studs when putting the new drum on. too much goop can cause the drum to be off center and the wheel would then bolt up crooked and cause vibrations.


that 3-way is the LSPV (Load Sensing Proportioning Valve) and is know to be a rusty shite. Mine is also rusted and I'm 04 and took care of my underside most years. The bleeder for it is disintegrated as well

 

Thanks for great info and tips. Since this is not my primary it's very helpful to point out the 03-04 differences as I often just lump all Gen I together. Maybe that makes sense why some of this was backwards and didn't match videos.
(Although compared to your picture, my device back there is a simple mechanical 3 way split, there is no valve and there are not 4 brake lines like most Toyotas have)

I did stop for the night.

But (oh you'll all hate me more for saying this) I caught a 'break' on this job.
I just managed to get that 17mm brake flex hose loose from the 3 way. It started to crazy twist hose as I loosened it, which I knew was bad so I tightened back a bit to take pressure off.
Then, brutalize the 3 way and anything around it. Since nothing else would release and it wasn't important (as I decided days ago to replace the 3 way and the final steel lines to the drums), I hacksawed both bolt heads down the middle, the ones that hold the 3 way bracket in and the bracket that bolts into it to hold the parking brake cable.
I hammered them with a chisel, but naturally in this case, the metal was too strong. So I drilled into the center of them both and then annihilated them with the chisel. This allowed me to lift off the parking brake bracket, then the 3 way / bracket combo. I broke off the remaining steel line and then simply spun the 3 way / bracket right off the previously loosened 17mm brake fitting.
I had to drill through the remaining bolt in the axle mount for the bracket so I can pass a different bolt and nut through there tomorrow.

I did not use heat on that 17mm brake fitting. I did PB Blast it 3 hours before and two days ago. I also shocked it several times with blows. It was on there tight, but in the end I was pretty astonished it simply unbolted!

That was the one thing - the final one - that would hang me here.
Tomorrow it's reassemble the driver side drum with new shoes and new hardware, then do the same on passenger side and add a new bell crank there and I think I can get this finally finished off.

The moral of this story is to laugh off the dinky 10mm fittings as they are worthless and will instantly deform, and go after that 17mm solid fitting - you can even use a regular box wrench as I did - there's plenty of solid surface area grip on a fitting that large.
Resign yourself to replace both rear steel lines, and that 3 way.

I think it was about $80 at the Toyota dealer here for both steel brake lines and the 3 way with bracket built in. I suppose it might be possible to somehow get those deformed 10mm fitting stubs left behind out by each rear steel line on a bench or something like that. I might investigate that tomorrow for curiousity.