Tire pressure light

I didn't know I was breaking the CoC.

 

Well it’s illegal for a tire store or shop to remove them that is..

 

I'm compliant again

 

I went to my toyota dealer today, just to check if there are any open TSBs on my truck etc. Inquired about the TPMS and what happened with me. Short story long, they didn't really have a clear answer.

What I do know, is the TPMS system is considered a "safety feature" It is part of the TREAD act of 2000 and literally all about safety: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans...ncement,_Accountability_and_Documentation_Act

This also has some information on what is legal and what is not: https://www.moderntiredealer.com/ar...ies-of-tpms-ignorance-of-the-law-is-no-excuse

I did find a better article at one point, but I can't for the life of me find it now. It cited specifically what the NHTSA defines as what can and cannot be done.

All of that being said, as far as my scenario goes, I believe that the dealer is still at fault with my truck. Although it does say this:
Scenario 4: What happens if a vehicle is released to the consumer without an illuminated malfunction indicator light (MIL) and then it illuminates after the vehicle has been driven?

According to NHTSA, “The mere illumination of the malfunction indicator lamp after the vehicle has been released by a motor vehicle repair business to the driver would not itself be a violation of the ‘make inoperative’ provision.”

However, my truck came with non-factory wheels. I highly suspect that there are no TPMS sensors in them. This I believe, again just my scenario here, that it would fall under a violation:
Scenario 2: If a customer purchased aftermarket performance tires and wheels and the customer refused to purchase new TPMS sensors or pay for the labor to transfer the original sensors to the aftermarket wheels, what would happen?

NHTSA responded that if the TPMS is functioning at the time of the aftermarket tire and wheel purchase, “a service provider would violate the ‘make inoperative’ prohibition of 49 USC 30122(b) by installing new tires and wheels that do not have a functioning TPMS system. To avoid a “make inoperative” violation, the service provider “would need to decline to install the new tires and rims, use the TPMS sensors from the original wheels (if they are compatible), or convince the motorist to purchase new TPMS sensors and ensure that the sensors are properly integrated with the vehicle’s TPMS system.”

I think I could also make the claim, that the issue was known before the sale, and I was told it was due to weather and there isn't anything wrong. In the case if I find there are no sensors, then the dealer would have flat out lied about a safety issue.

So, I still don't know if I have TPMS sensors or not... mostly because the dealer wanted $100 for a diagnostic. I figured I could just buy/rent whatever myself if I'm gonna shell out $100 on something.

 

Here’s a TPMS sensor. The black ring goes in the wheel. Everything left of the black ring will be visible outside the wheel. If you have that funny looking long aluminum nut, you have TPMS sensors. If you determine that you do have sensors, Discount Tire has a magic wand that they can wave beside your wheels and determine if any/all of them are dead.

 

You would have thought for all the time I worked at tires plus I would think to just look at the valve stems lol.... I am not smart.

 

LOL Thanks for the 2nd laugh of the day. The 1st was the guy that replaced the neighbors mailbox twice in one day. LOL

 

Yarp. Left rear is missing, just has a standard valve stem. I went from ASE back to IT, I get stuck in the computer mindset sometimes. I was just thinking I would scan for the sensors, didn't occur to me to use my eyeballs haha.

 

You know, Techstream works for programming TPMS sensors, right?

 

I just bought my truck 2 days ago, cable won't be here until tomorrow haha.

 

My 07 xrunner tpms just lit up again for the 5th time since buying new tires a few months age. The time before last they said the spare had low pressure. Last time they said the spare needs replacing, it’s the original from 07. Had I known I would have saved one of the replaced tires to be used as a spare. So now I have to buy a new tire for a spare. I guess I can’t bitch too much. The America’s tire I go to is a good well run shop. They have something on the wall that says they rebuild or replace the sensors on every tire they work on or replace, something like that. They’re always up front on how long the wait will be. Best of all they act professional, instead of being a bunch of monkeys, liars, or assholes.

This Toyota system is pretty basic compared to what’s in my 12 Nissan van. The Nissan tells me the pressure in every tire if I go through pushing buttons. Instead of an idiot light, it lights up telling me exactly which tire is low and it’s pressure.

 

FWIW, the dealer I bought my truck from just got back to me (I just emailed the manager yesterday) and agreed they should not have sold me the truck with a broken TPMS system / a missing sensor. They are willing to pay to have the repairs done.

 

Yea I got mine from the dealership, told them about it the first day and they put air in the tires, even the spare , they told me the light is gonna stay on because it’s “cold” out, bought the truck 2 weeks ago, you think I can still talk to the manager about it?

 

I would, that's basically exactly what happened to me. I just sent them an email, loosely said how the TPMS is a safety system, and I'm sure it probably violates some NHSTA code for selling a vehicle with an inoperative system. I didn't want to jump straight to citing NHTSA codes, I thought maybe that would come off too aggressive. My backup plan was if they pushed back, was to bring up deceitful sales practices, or gross incompetence by their techs if they were unable to diagnose a safety problem with a vehicle before sale. Both would reflect poorly on the dealer, and I'm sure (Lincon of America for me) would not be happy.

 

FWIW- I've been battling with a low pressure warning light for months on my 08. Seems that the original alloy wheels had lost their ability to seal with all of the salt corrosion (tires losing 10lbs every few weeks), dash light would come on, I'd haul out the compressor and then re-set the light....wash/rinse/repeat.

I got tired of the constant filling so I decided to replace wheels/tires and new sensors. Found a set of 4 OEM Toyota sensors on eBay for $60 delivered. My shop just installed them all yesterday- they have a code reader that they used to synch them all up to the truck. Worked like a charm.

 

Yeah, but me and AvranV just bought our trucks a week and or two ago, both from dealers. If I had this thing for a while, this would be a totally different story. I have only had my truck for a week.

 

gotcha- good luck-

 

Thanks for the advise, have an appointment with the dealership this Tuesday, hopefully they can fix it or hopefully I don’t have to pay for anything

 

I posted this somewhere else, https://www.moderntiredealer.com/ar...ies-of-tpms-ignorance-of-the-law-is-no-excuse

"NHTSA’s response was, “As a general matter, a violation of the ‘make inoperative’ prohibition does not occur until a repair business allows or intends a vehicle to be returned to use... this would be true regardless of whether arrangements have been made for future repair.”" - basically, can't release the vehicle or return to service with a malfunctioning tpms.

Again, it technically is a safety system, part of the TREAD act of 2000.

I wouldn't let them bully you into paying for anything. This is kind of a grey area, but, as I said before; bring up deceptive sales tactics, incompetence of pre-inspection before sale, etc. I'm sure any decent dealer just won't want to have you be a pain in their ass for spending a few hundred on parts/time.

 

2010 + do not. Some 2009 do not.