Towing and brake pad choice

Well, my '07 DC LB 4x4 is at 37,000+ miles and overdue for brake fluid change. Thinking of replacing the pads at the same time. The Taco is a daily driver with some towing thrown in. My tow is a 20' Chaparral + trailer, probably 4000#. Was thinking of going ceramic for the pads. Like the idea of quiet and low dusting with the ceramics but most reviews I've read say they have no increased performance over OEM. What's been your experience with ceramic pads or recommendations for alternatives?

 

Ceramic pads have always lasted longer than cheaper pads and the create a lot less brake dust in my experience.

 

I just put Raybestos ceramics on mine, I have 43 k. I didnt change my fluid though.

 

Pads with ceramic and pads with carbon materials will reach their most effective range of performace at higher temps then brakes without or with lower percentages of the material. In other words friction is a direct relationship with temp ( up to a point, of course) when talking about brake pad performance.

A lot of folkes will report no change or even less effectiveness in braking performance when changing to higher performance pads because they rarely use the brakes from high enough speeds or for long enough periods to bring the pads and rotors to the temp at which they work the best.

Another consideration is which would you rather wear out first. The dust is the pad wearing and not the rotor; in a high friction environment something has to be sacrificed - either the rotor or the pad.

I think, that with a heavy trailer ( 4000+ is 2/3s? of your capacity) conservative driving and engine braking will serv better than a harder pad.

 

Why is your truck due for a brake fluid change?

 

X2... Over maintenance????

 

According to both Haynes and Chiltons manuals, brake fluid change is considered to be normal maintenance at 30,000 mile intervals. Same as differentials and transfer case.

 

Still considering the ceramics. If I can expect OEM-like performance during day-to-day driving and enhanced braking while towing, it sounds like a win/win situation for me. As for increased rotor wear, just makes it easier to justify the change to slotted rotors at some future time. Has anyone had any experience with Satisfied Ceramic VS brake pads? Looking online for reviews has been kind of a mixed bag. Some people love them while others bash them for performance. But then again I've found it more common to find negative reviews on just about anything. People who like a product are happy about it and go on with their life, but people with a bad experience are looking for their pound of flesh and write about it for the whole world to see.

 

I had my pads checked at 45k... I do a little towing also. They told me my OEM pads should last to 100k.

 

"any experience with Satisfied Ceramic VS brake pads?"

Did you check Hawk - they have various grades of performance p[ads.; lots of folks seem to like them.

 

Used Hawk HPS pads on my old Ranger. Good performance but found them to be a little on the dirty side despite their claim of "low dust". Was hoping to find similar performance in a cleaner format. I know this is comparing apples to oranges, as the HPS line is not ceramic. but that is the only experience I've had with Hawk Performance.

 

Reason for mentioning Satisfied Ceramic VS pads is their affordability. Amazon lists these pads in the $35 range, ceramic at entry level pricing. I know people say you get what you pay for, but I'm always looking for that diamond in the rough.

 

wagner thermoquiets, awesome pads...low dust.

 

There is no reason to swap out brake fluid. It's a sealed hydralic system, not a mechanical lubricating system. Are you sure it's not "check" brake fluid at 30K, that's what my Toyota manual states.

 

The brake system absorbs moisture and lowers the boiling point of the fluid over time, thus why it is recommended to be changed at certain intervals.

 

As stated in the Haynes manual. "At the specified intervals (30,000 mi. /48,000 km)the brake fluid should be drained and replaced." Similar wording is in the Chiltons manual. Could not find reference to this in the owners manual delivered with the truck, but that's pretty bare-bones. I've always done a fluid change whenever replacing pads, etc. just for peace of mind. It's amazing how crappy brake fluid gets. Any moisture absorbed by the fluid can cause rust and caliper pistons to stick. Figure I'm going to bleed the system anyway, why not start all fresh.

 

Not going to discount what you are saying, but modern braking systems are sealed units, and desinged to keep moisture from getting into the line. If you look at Toyota's recommended service interval, there is no requirement to change out your brake fluid. Now if you are replacing your pads, of course you will bleed the line and add fresh fluid. Although the same result with the fluid, the two operations are for and from vastly different reasons.

 

I get that you are towing, but your pads are wearing out at 30K?? There's a difference with refilling and replacing brake fluid. There is no service requirement by Toyota to replace the brake fluid as I mentioned the system on the Tacoma is a sealed unit. There should be little to no contaminants in the line. If there is, there is something seriously wrong with te systems that replacing brake fluid every 30K miles isn't going to help. If you keep your brake fluid topped off properly, air and contaminants should not be your line.

 

Yes it is sealed by the fact that the brake fluid does not come out, nor is exposed to air directly, instead of explaining it in my terms...i'll copy and paste. The only way to alleviate this problem is to use a silicone based fluid (DOT - 5), some people say the rubber lines absorb moisture and let it into the system. I am no mechanic, but there seems to be alot of evidence as to why you should change the brake fluid, not to be confused with your BLINKER fluid...which only has to be changed every 6/60k

Why is moisture a problem?

Brake fluid is a non-compressible liquid (like hydraulic fluid.) As the brake pedal is pushed, this force is transmitted to the individual brakes via the brake fluid. Fluids are generally non-compressible, while gases (vapor/moisture) are compressible. If brake fluid boils (becomes a gas) it will lose its ability to transmit force - in other words, brake failure. The Department of Transportation (DOT) requires that brake fluid have a dry (no moisture) boiling temperature of at least of 401 degrees, with a wet temperature of no less than of 284 degrees.

A 3% moisture content in DOT3 brake fluid will reduce the boiling point to 293 degrees. Which is dangerously close to DOT and OEM requirements. Based on NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) studies, brake fluid can absorb 3% moisture through hoses and valves in 18 months. 20% of the cars tested had a moisture content over 5%.

DOT4 brake fluid does not absorb moisture as fast but is impacted by the moisture to a greater degree. A 3% moisture content in DOT4 fluid reduces the boiling point up to 50%.

Are some vehicles more susceptible to these problems than others?

Vehicles that have hotter brakes are more subject to problems due to moisture in the brake fluid.

Example vehicles are:

Front wheel drive brake systems cars with semi-metallic linings run significantly hotter than rear drive vehicles.

Vehicles that carry heavy loads, pull trailers, are used in mountainous terrain, and have a lot of hard (panic) stops are particularly vulnerable to overheated brake fluid.