Long range rifles

Long range matches are the best, there's no better way to really see how you stack up in skills.

 

Where in Georgia?

I live here, and did not hear about that match.

 

From the looks of it I would say Benning.

 

It was at the Arena Training Facility. Not far from Benning.

https://www.arenatrainingfacility.com/

 

Thank you.

I will look into the Arena.

 

Hi guys.
I have a dilemma. Or several. I'm new to guns in general, as far as hunting goes I have the knowledge of a 3-year-old. Long-range shooting even less. I recently purchased a savage 110 storm, and am working on finding the right scope for what I want to do with it. This may be a tall order, but I want to be able to hunt with it, for now, whitetail and someday elk, but also get into long-range shooting without having to buy a whole other set up. I know its not a super nice long-range rifle but its what I can afford in college so I'm gonna try and make it work for now. From what I've gathered, a 4-16 power scope is about where I need to be. low enough for the woods high enough for longer range. I started with vortex viper Hs and Hs long-range, but the Hs long range for some reason comes in 1/2 moa adjustments. at 600 yards that's like 3 inches from one click, so seems like a no go. The Hs comes in 1/4moa adjustments but has capped turrets, while hs Long-range has exposed. Maybe I'm being stupid and don't need exposed turrets but they seem like a useful feature. Leupold had nothing in my price range that I could find within those specs so I went to Nikon. The Nikon Black FS1000 checks all my boxes but comes in two models. The fx1000 and the x1000. The fx having FFP, which for $550 seems like a great deal. However, the X1000 is SFP, but has an illuminated reticle. So now I'm stuck again, if I go with the benefits of an FFP scope, will I regret it when I'm hunting just before sundown and miss an animal because I couldn't find the reticle?

This was long-winded and confusing I'm sure, so just to sum it up

Vortex: capped turrets, OR exposed turrets with 1/2 adjustment

"you don't need exposed turrets and you won't be a good enough shot for 1/2 adjustments to make a difference anyway"

OR

Nikon: exposed turrets, ffp OR illuminated reticle

is a FFP way more beneficial than an illuminated reticle?

I know I'm new to everything and could get by just fine without the fancy bells and whistles, but either way, I'm just trying to get the best bang for my buck now so I don't have to keep buying new scopes if I decide I want to get into more long-range shooting. If you made it this far thanks, I hope I made sense. Any advice and opinions are much appreciated.

 

First things first, we need to get realistic about a few things.
1. “Long range” is a expensive hobby/sport/duty/whatevs.
2. What is long range to you? The txt book answer is about when atmospherics and general dynamics really start to impact the bullet, and that is about 600m/y plus. ELR is generally beyond 1000y/m or when about the bullet goes into trans. This is just FYI so we are on the same page. There are dudes...usually over the age of 50 who like to argue 300y is long range. A BDC reticle is fine for that.

So to uncomplicate your dilemma, IF you are shooting “long range” those exposed turrets and the angular measurements they provide are very useful as as a BDC typically wouldn’t be precise as unless it was calibrated for a particular load, which still, there are caveats to that as well, but perhaps off topic.

So first, don’t get wrapped in the angular measurements, who cares if it’s .5 moa or .25 moa, all this does is allows you to get through the turrets quicker. If you have a 2 moa target and a solution calls for 12.66 moa, dial 12.5 moa, and forget the .1 moa difference. It’s negligible while starting out. Past that inches of adjustment don’t matter. I feel I need to go more into this as to why exposed turrets are used...lemme know. I don’t really want to type out all about ballistic solutions and data and dope, how to get it and things that aren’t relative, but I can..

FFP IS indeed useful to the knowledgeable. Its how you can make fast shots, it’s how you know your correction on misses, it’s how you will hold your wind, as wind is not steady state. Basically anything that requires using the reticle as a ruler, is useful, and a FFP is the way to do it...at all magnification. Not at a fixed mag like most SFP scopes. You don’t need THAT much magnification, 10x being really all that’s necessary for most targets at 1000, but some people really like to get all up in the targets business. So theres some preference, but you don’t NEED a lot of mag, if anything to much can be hindering. Good on you for that one. Just keep in mind these aren’t fancy bells and whistles really, they're useful tools, and in common practice. Most just depends on how serious a person is.

Lastly, it’s hard to have a do it all gun. I can’t really comment on your use, as (assuming your hunting Texas) Texas whitetail can be really close or far’ish depending on the property, but elk in most western states you can pop from a far if you know what you’re doing. If you’re using a blind and there’s a field 75 to x amount of yards your rifle (more so your scope) will be fine for deer.

 

@dfanonymous made very good points.
I'll also add; since you're so young, in school, on a tight budget, e.t.c. I'd look to joining a nice gun club, getting instruction on the fundamentals, start with getting sub MOA groups at 100, then 200, then 300 yards, and then move up to mid range (300-600). You'll learn lots about your system, including gear needed to progress. I'd suggest not tying to eat the elephant in one bite.
Good luck!

 

I'm going to take a straight shot at the questions, the other guys have given great advice that I don't need to repeat.

What is your rifle chambered in, and what do you plan to do with it in the non-hunting sphere? Long Range shooting has lots of different subsets, from freeform targets at long range, to Extreme Long Range (ELR) competitions, Precision Rifle Series style (PRS) competitions, to competitions like Mammoth/Vortex Extreme/Steel Safari. Some guns and cartridges are best suited to long range hunting, others ELR, still others at PRS, and just about anything can be used at "long range" because long range is relative to the cartridge and conditions much of the time. My rule of thumb is that Long Range target shooting for a given centerfire cartridge starts at half of it's supersonic range, IE, long ranges with a .223 might be 400-800 yards, but a 6.5 Creedmoor is starting to stretch it's legs around 700-1400 yards. Halve those distances for most people under hunting conditions where taking game must be done ethically. Given you have a 110 Storm, there are cartridge options for all of the above, plus a couple that are really going to be tough to stretch out significant distances, so an exact cartridge will help me guide you to a form of shooting that the rifle will be well suited for, which would help guide your optic selection.

The FX1000 looks like an optic well suited for the more tactically focused long range pursuits like PRS, with FFP milling reticles, and exposed turrets. It can still be used for hunting, but you'll find that an exposed windage turret isn't generally helpful in the woods, and FFP reticles are tough to see in low-light conditions like an early morning or late afternoon hunt.

The X1000 seems to be similar to the FX, just with the SFP reticle and Illumination, which can make it a bit more suited to being pressed into a hunting role, as an SFP reticle is always the same thickness and illumination will help bring the reticle into view when lighting is bad. The time required to dial up the mag to the calibrated magnification is a non-issue IMO, if you need to dial in a hunting situation you should have plenty of time to take the shot.

For a dual-purpose optic, I really like the HSLR, it's well suited to the task at hand. The SFP reticle is easily visible in varied light conditions, and in conditions where you want to take long shots the BDC/Milling reticle is pretty well laid out. The capped windage and rough elevation are well suited to hunting applications, and with the hybrid milling/BDC reticle it means you've got all the tools on hand to make snap shots or dial in for a target way out yonder. The big killer is the lack of Illumination, but having an SFP reticle mitigates the need slightly.

You can also shoot at long range with a standard hunting optic. I pushed my Savage Axis in .223 out to 600 yards plenty of times on the factory equipped Bushnell Banner 3-9x40. Non illuminated, SFP reticle, capped turrets, no milling reticle just a basic BDC. It makes you work harder to make distant shots, but for point targets at ranges out to 300 (IE, hunting ranges) it's fast handling and easy to bring to bear.

 

First off. Don’t be embarrassed by your choice of rifle. Savage is hands down the best base to start with for a baller on a budget. Especially one that doesn’t know what he wants in life. You can pretty much LEGO the shit out of it to get what you want OR multiple what you wants off one action. 15min and $120 in tools and you can spin on/off your own barrels, safely, till your hearts content. (Ruger RPR is there but I’ve fallen out of love with them, and has less bits to customize)

As requested above, what caliber do you have? I hate that savage dropped the easy model numbers where 1xx was LA and 1x was SA. Buy a 20moa steel scope base, mount and forget.

I ran a very long time on a fixed power 10x, and it never was a problem. More power is nice, but not needed. FFP cs SFP, I made a post about my thoughts here:

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/long-range-rifles.355127/page-72#post-22163247

In a nut shell. Unless you need ranging at different powers I’d opt for a higher end SFP over a lower end FFP. And unless you need it, avoid illuminated... they have a mushier reticle.

 

Indeed. Although I would recommend using gear you have at least some sense of familiarity with. I made the mistake of assuming the lateral hashes in the reticle were 1 mil intervals like the vertical scale was. Nope, it was a line for ~5mph wind drift. Close enough to a mil, but I just skirted the edge of a few targets and didn't get the credit because of that slight variation. I was one engagement away from my buddy in 3rd, so I could have had him if but for that.

I was still impressed how well I did considering my lack of preparation (hard to go practice positioning when theres a foot of snow on the ground). Being a match too, I can keep up on skill, but there some "gaming" strategy that I need to get better on that you don't normally need or encounter hunting squirrels / terrys like how to play the clock, etc.

 

commenting now would just be rehashin what has already been stated

@jttx what ever setup you go with make certain to get out and shoot, the more time spend with yer rifle the more you’ll get to know her

 

@jttx The only thing I'll add is, plan to spend lots of time shooting paper at 100 yards with your setup before pushing out further. It may not be as fun, but it will pay off immensely in the long run. Without good fundamentals, you'll be chasing your tail. Good luck to you.

 

I’ll echo @Gunshot-6A (former call sign?) get proficient with your equipment. My first comp was using my friends RPR in .308, and while I have extensive experience with the AR platform, and .308, I don’t have it in both. Couple that with some questionable hand loads and an unfamiliar reticle, I didn’t do too hot. And by that I mean I beat out the three DNFs that day. But that didn’t stop me from having multiple hits on the 18” plate at almost 1100yrds. Fundamentals were true, but familiarity was lacking.

Next comp using my savage 12 LRP, and since I didn’t step my windage turret, and last range day was in over 15mph full value winds, my first 40rds of the still day were with 2.7mil of left wind. That’s quite a miss at 660yrds. Was banking on a zero range to use at the start of the day, no such luck. Someone in my squad took pity and said “see that dark splotch on the berm over there... that’s where all your rounds were hitting”. Bagged up the rifle on the berm, whizzed my reticle from target to impact, and I was back in the game. Ended up middle of the pack after that.

Got new glass because why not, and hit the range on a abnormally calm day. Now I have a solid zero stop at -0.5mil from 100yrd. Wind knob is dead nuts locked at zero on the dial for easy return.

TLDR: get to know your gear, work on your fundamentals, and move forward.

 

Best SWAT sniper I ever met wouldn't touch his .300 win mag until he put 50-100 rounds through his .22 LR Tikka. If you can master a .22 on a windy day to 200 yards, you can slay dragons with the big boys. Plus your misses cost like .5 cents instead of 1.5 dollars.

 

...so many of us keep mentioning the fundamentals. And they are overly basic to those of us trained in the military, we had them ground into our heads since, what, basic training week 2? But for some, they may get lost in google. So maybe they should be brought up?

As I used to train folks, and what was ground into my head, the four fundamentals of marksmanship are:

1. Position
2. Sight picture
3. Breathing
4. Trigger squeeze
5. Follow through*

From my experience even the most shit shooter in the wold (LTC Whocares, MD, direct commission from the PHS to MEDDAC-J, the last unit to ever deploy) can be trained to hit the target using these four things.

Master the fundamentals and then start blaming the rifle


*=on edit.

 

5. Follow through (this is the one I have trouble consistently doing)

 

To this end going to shoot with Project Appleseed (and investing in a 22lr rifle) is the best training I've ever done on shooting. It's 2 days on fundamentals with the goal of hitting an expert tier qualification. Quite informative, very fun, and helps teach (a) correct form so you can go from there.

The six steps as I remember them :

Sight Picture
Sight Alignment
Respiratory pause
Focus
Trigger Squeeze
Followthrough

Combine those with solid positioning/NPOA and you will put a round exactly where you were aiming.

 

my 22 trainer is one of my favorite rifles to shoot

 

This follow through, as a term, is a new concept to me