All Things Bikes and Tacos! (...and every vehicle imaginable)

The ebike debate is a newer issue, and will not get solved anytime soon. Personally, I have no issue with mild pedal assist but a huge issue with throttle controlled and high top speed on mtb trails.

Class 1 on mtb trails - fine
Class 2 and class 3 - on pavement only

But can we all unify and agree on something while we all sort this out?

F horse people!
Not centaurs, but horse owners who ride on mtb trails and tear them up and leave sh*t every where without a care in the world.

 

How is your tailgate cover/bike rack? I'm contemplating getting one similar but I'm fearful of scratches and what not...I have a straight up pavement princess so I'm overly cautious

 

look at my post above. Get the Latchit Rack. I’m giving one away on the MTBR forums. It’s by far my favorite truck rack system. Easy to take off and on and lockable.

 

How about the White Rim Trail in Canyonlands? It's an approximately a 100 mile loop. Great camping sites that can be very isolated. It's a jeep trail with only one real workout going uphill at murphy's hogback in either direction that some of your less fit group may want to shuttle up. You can do out and backs from your camp, or have a driver for the day skip ahead to the next camp. You need to pack everything in and out since all that's provided are camp sites and pit toilets. I've ridden it once a few years ago and did only the drive this past October. I love it there.

 

It’s not a bs argument, because you need to compare the same rider with different bikes.
If I’m riding a 30 lb regular bike I’m doing less damage than on a 50 lb e-bike. People don’t change weight when they change bikes. E-bikes also put down significantly more power than a rider would normally, and yes that does make a difference on loose trails. Sure, on packed trails that damage is minimal, but on looser and loamier trails the impact is noticeable and significant.
Rider skills as well as style makes an impact as well, as slappers and skidders do cause damage (guilty of that myself sometimes).
What we need to remember is that we are trying to compare THE SAME RIDER on different bikes to determine whether or not they have a negative impact.

I’m also not sure about the horse comment... Yeah, horses cause more damage than any other non-motorized user. Yes, it’s because of their weight... And yeah, I and many others wish horses weren’t on bike trails, so...

Again, I think pedal assist bikes are fun and have a place. Just not on “regular” trails.

So, Whole Enchilada is NOT newbie friendly. At all. Highly discouraged for people who are not good riders. Lots of distance, lots of technical riding, and likely for that group lots of walking.
In Moab, do Mag 7 instead (without portal), slickrock, BRANDS, Klondike, and Bartlett wash.
So much fun stuff in Colorado as well. The whole Crested Butte area, Summit County (including Trestle), Fruita is a must, and the unreal beauty of Aspen. Lots of fun off-road and MTB to do out there...

 

They can ride reasonably well, but its their fitness I am worried about. I'm really selfish and want to do the Whole Enchilada but I'm also not trying to be a dick..lol I know of one or two shuttle routes in Crested Butte but I'm unaware of the 4wd trails. Fruita has been on my to do list but I also have no idea on the trails out there either. I have thought of doing part of the Colorado Trail with them but I'm afraid that commitment will scare them away. Its all about smoke and mirrors with them.

 

You can always do Porcupine instead of W.E. It’s the shorter version that’s the lower third. Spectacular views, amazing (but very technical) riding. But since it’s shorter the commitment is lower and fitness is less of a factor. The other rides I suggested are super fun as well, and classic Moab stuff. Don’t be lured into having to do W.E., there’s soooo much awesome riding out there. I’ve been goin for over 15 years...Look at my profile pic ; )
Fruita is self explanatory. Go to 18 road, park, camp, ride from campsite all damn day on as many laps as you can. If you have the time and energy, there’s lunch loops. Though for a day or two, 18 road is where it’s at for your group.
I can’t even start with the off-road options in C.B. And Aspen. Just so much. Passes are often some of the most stunning drives you can do. Jones Pass by winter park is beautiful, but it’s the only one I can “give away” online. Get on google earth, find some passes, check out online forms, and go. I hate to say it, but you kinda have to do your homework and earn it. But it’ll make it that much more worth it. It’ll be memorable, that’s for sure.
When are you headed out?

 

Why do you need to compare same rider different weight bike? Every person is a different weight. Who gives a shit what the weight of the bike is. It’s approx 20lbs. For once I’m glad I’m in CA. There legal everywhere. I can tell your a ebike hater and that’s cool. To each there own. But seriously don’t knock it till you try it

 

They are trying to control for factors other than the bike. the main goal imo is to see what damage a regular bike does compared to the damage an ebike does. The weight isn’t the main issue in my opinion, like @abacall said it’s the extra power being put down. A test should probably be done with an ebike and a comparable model with weight added so that both bikes weigh the same, using the same tires, same rider, trail, etc. then we would get a better idea of how the increased power impacts trail damage. Change other factors as seen fit.

I think the bottom line is that a lot more research needs to be done to see what the impact of ebikes is given the already sensitive relationship between mountain bikers and communities.

 

I hope to be unencumbered by dates but I'm also realistic with my friend's schedules. If we do desert I want to go early spring but if we are going alpine we may wait until June or July. I've seen some really interesting stuff out there but combining the often cryptic info on mountain bike trails and 4wd trails is an arduous task. They are more into driving than riding so I have to manage that. I'd be happy to park at the end of a certain trail or two in Colorado and call it a weekend but they are interested in less in sweating their ass off. I'm thinking of doing the Rainbow trail in Colorado and camping at the end of it, which happens to be at the bottom of Hayden Pass (easy).

I'm tired of always bending to the group and not doing what I want to do so I may get stubborn.

 

Definitely the same frame. The colorway on my bike is "chameleon" ironically, considering the next photo I posted. My bike is a 2018, last year before the frame re-design.

Your build looks like a blast to ride.

 

You read me wrong bud, not a hater at all. I’ve spent several days on one, riding them back-to-back on the same trail with my other regular (enduro) bike, in an effort to better gauge what I liked as well as trail impact. None of what I said was speculation, all was from first hand experience. Not my cup of tea, but that doesn’t change the physics of the issue. More weight + more power + more laps = more impact

You can always break off from the pack and do a side trip nearby.
Sounds like you have the timing down. Desert is prime in March-early May. Alpine won’t melt off till late July, early August, depending on elevation. I usually aim for desert riding in April, alpine in late a July, high alpine early August.
Shoot me a PM a bit before you head out and I’ll be happy to share some trail knowledge with you. Just don’t want to be posting that stuff for any Jerry to see.

 

Anyone on a guerrilla gravity here? Pulled the trigger on a smash today.

 

it works great. The pad is pretty thick and has a soft microfiber material on the back side making contact with the truck. It comes with straps to secure (but not lock) your bike. As for bike transportation, you can’t beat the price and convenience of a tailgate pad.

 

I've ridden a demo at one of our local outdoor expos a couple of years ago and could easily see the potential for a strong rider to do some real damage with that extra power boost. I agree... it's unfortunate that the many are subject to the actions of a few, but such is the reality of living in a society that is more reactive than proactive. Laws, rules, and societal norms are not really considered or given weight until some catalyst occurs that sparks anger or backlash among a slice of that society, then the knee-jerk reaction is typically worst-case scenario until all sides either find common ground, or reach an impasse that cannot be crossed.

Humans, unfortunately, cannot be trusted to always act in the best interest of their fellow man and will predictably follow self-serving practices until called out for it, banned, reprimanded, et al...

The only other real concern that sticks in the back of my mind is the threat of fire in the event of a battery puncture or failure. I've been working in the DC Power industry for 15 years now and battery runaways are not to be taken lightly.. that is especially true for the new Lithium iterations. They don't just spill a little acid that might corrode; they fail catastrophically and vigorously expel their charging substrate when exposed to air/water. I have confidence that the top-tier manufacturers are building to a safety standard under a regulating body like UL, ETL, etc... but, again, humans doing dumb shit for a grin has shown time and again that aftermarket accessory manufacturers do not hold themselves to the same rigorous safety standards and someone trying to save a buck or stick it to the OEM for being quoted a crazy price for a factory-spec battery will cut corners in safety protocols.

Go full yard sale on an e-MTB in rocks and watch it melt into a sizzling pile of molten parts when the battery is punctured, then throw a spark to whatever tinder surrounds it.

I fully agree that horse riders too often get a pass for their impact on trails. The weight of a horse with a rider, saddle, and tack is far more detrimental to trail wear than just about any bicycle. That said, you are missing one key variable between the 200lbs rider on a 30lbs regular MTB and a 160lbs rider on a 50lbs ebike. If they are equal in fitness, then the difference of impact may well be negligible. Put a strong, experienced rider on an e-MTB and the difference of impact changes quite a bit. The inexperienced and less fit rider is more prone to over-ride their abilities with an e-boost and push the envelope of their skill level without considering the impact on the trail surface whereas, if the experienced rider is self-aware; he/she should be smoother on just about any surface, regardless of bike underneath but, nonetheless; the potential for surface damage is higher with an experienced rider if they decide to push their limits with a bike that can increase their overall power.

 

Well hopefully they get this all figured out. I am using this bike as a training aid and for fun. I’m training for BC Bike Race now and I will use this ebike for recovery rides or just to get a spin in. I can set my average heart rate in the app and it will increase or decrease power to keep me in that heart rate. I ordered the Levo SL. Far from damaging power at only having a 240w motor and 40lbs. Plus gives me the ability to explore Henry Coe further

 

The battery is a good point. Especially with those hoverboards that go up in flames haha.

I’m on the fence about emtbs. I personally feel like it’s an easier way out. For some they are using it to extend their range but for others it’s just because they don’t want to pedal as hard. Just a personal bias though.

I think your point about the experience level is more important regardless of the bike though. Example, I’ve seen this guy on an emtb a few times. I think he has a bad knee so he rides that now. He rides really fast but obviously very experienced and under control. Then this weekend I also saw a bunch of kids with regular mtbs, at oldest high school age with their parents waiting for them in the parking lot. Those kids were 100% riding over their skill level, skidding around, spinning out, etc. not because they were doing it on purpose but because they couldn’t control themselves. Not trying to bash them or say that one is better than the other but just trying to point out that this issue is way more complex than regular mtb vs emtb.

 

Yep I remember that color now. Looks fantastic in the sun. They definitely stepped up the components by 2018. I bumped up to 150 from 140 On the fork and I think they went there by 2018 anyways. I think it is a great platform. I have raced mine as well as hit Killington several times. It’s not a boutique bike, but it just works so well I can’t complain.

I have a Specialized hard tail too and no one knows what brand it is until you are two feet away as it is white on white.

 

Saw this gem at our bike race in Lake George, NY. Right hand drive Hilux Surf.

 

Any chance you'd spring for a mid-April Fruita jam? I always end up going Easter weekend but I could +- a week