Free Wheel Manual Hubs Conversion Kit

So I don't have a dog in this fight yet, and no one asked my opinion, but I feel I've got enough experience with this having worked on pretty much every Toyota 4x4 truck from 79-2006, mostly pre-85, more recently 96+. I've been scratching my head also. IMO the needle bearing is not the issue, it's the hub, if the diameter of the outer stub is correct. Which made me think why there would be a difference between hubs. Did some reading and found ADD hubs and Non-ADD hubs are different bores. 1.1" vs 1.3". What are the odds @mxtwo50r received one of each?

@05Taco4x4 your hubs are sourced from a recycler correct? Or so it says in your OP. Is it possible you unknowingly received a mismatched ADD hub? Do you test fit/mock up components prior to shipping? That's the only thing I can think of.

This issue has been well documented to happen with the 4runner also, and only on the driverside.

@mxtwo50r can you take an inside diameter measurement of the hub? Or put a smear of grease around the shaft and needle bearing and insert into the hub, which would help identify exactly when/where the interference occurs?

Just my .02¢. Hope you guys can find the issue here. I'll go back to the peanut gallery now.

 

The hubs are new aftermarket cnc'd by a well known manufacturer with only one offering for manual hubs, it is very unlikely it's out of tolerance but nothing is impossible. Parts are interchangeable side-to-side in this kit, I can't speak for older model 4runners.

@mxtwo50r does the splined and length of the shaft slide into the hub bore easily without binding until the 30mm part encounter the needle bearings?

 

@bobsuruncle I confirmed it is a non add hub. it was the one provided in the kit.

Just clarify when I say hub needle bearing I am talking about the piece that I put in the picture. I am sure if we press out the needle bearing out of the fitting and non fitting "hubs" the ID will be smaller which is causing the bearing to compress more and rolling the edge out..
@mxtwo50r and I carefully analyzed the non fitting hub and it is stopping half way into the needle bearings.

Both of us have a lot of experience with the original trucks that used these parts. He has also worked in one of the more reputable 4x4 shops in the area and knows what he is doing.

I think it is a pure machining defect of the hub needle bearing area.

One more thing it is very hard to explain or understand until you have hands on the parts.

 

Who said it accepts 1st Gen needle bearing? This is an aftermarket part, all the manufacturer had to do was make sure the needle bearing they used had the correct ID. Since mxtwo50r took it upon himself to remove the needle bearing I can't verify what he received. That's where we're at, him wanting me to warranty his work.

 

Contacted the hub supplier, verified its the same bearing. Yes I know the supplier.

Also..

When the brass bushing is removed, the bearing part number is exposed, which was verified to be the same.

Double verification on that end.

Cant guarantee what I received and installed.... SURE YOU CAN! Ordered 2 cause I knew you would act like this... See below..



Standard needle bearing Dimensions
Fw: 30mm
D: 37mm
C: 20mm



You keep asking questions that have been covered in previous posts.

Yes the cv goes through the hub until it gets to the bearing, as covered in previous posts, with pictures.

What is the path forward? Please refrain from asking about topics that have been covered previously, as to not further delay a solution.

 

I don't want any of my work warrantied, i want my 1000 dollar front hub “kit” to not be a pile of parts on my workbench. Ive covered in great detail the problems, you are still dancing.

 

Anyone else please chime in if there is any info that I am missing. Starts on page 15.

 

I have not authorized you do anything to the hub and I will not warranty your work. You assume too much and have tried to lead the conversation by discounting my troubleshooting steps, doing your own thing from the beginning.
Where is it acceptable practice to return a product you have altered? The best I can do in this scenario is replace the bearing/hub assembly at a subsidized price. I'll give you the price and my shipping address in the PM, will ship as soon as I receive the original.

For posterity, this will be the only time I receive back or entertain altered components.

 

For anyone keeping tabs:

Plot twist..

Op has a PO box 5 mins from my work.

Refused in person exchange of parts.

@cjsqueeky helped out, but the guy who has 1000 dollars of my money must be dealt with through form posts and sending a money order even though he is local, again avoiding paypal.

Potential buyers take note.

 

Make sure that's a USPS Money Order

 

I've been on a TW hiatus for a couple moths, so this was interesting to come back to.

I have a similar issue. You hit everything spot on, so I'll cliff notes my input; 17 years in aviation, A&P certificated, install went smooth, noticed the passenger side needle bearing "binding", feel variable resistance - visually watch the CV move in and out, troubleshot, removed and replaced both sides 3 times, bought extra bearings, back and forth with OP (leaving the PM thread out), came to same hypothesis that the out outer shafts or hubs are not being machined to the right tolerance... nothing.

Finshed reading the rest of the tread, very curious how this will play out.

I've honestly gave up and accepted the fact that these are not going to last long and I will have to rebuild them, hopefully to OEM specs.

 

You failed to say that you had bought an extra hub/bearing set to safeguard in case I wasn't selling anymore and you installed it and everything is fine now.

Your experiences have nothing to do with my custom part, it has to do with wear on the needle bearing within the hub. You both received new parts that operated as such.

 

@MY50cal THANK YOU MY BROTHER! That just made my day.

In your opinion did I miss anything in the explanation?

Also, question, is your outer cv machined smooth where the needle bearing rides? The spot of the cv that would ride in the bearing has a rough finish on mine, your fingernail ran across the ridges of the surface make a noise. It has the same machined, phonographic finish the whole length of the shaft out to the splines, it never gets smoother for the bearing area. I tried to take a pic, but its hard on my phone to get it. Took a pic of the other end for comparison. Granted it has been in a bearing so it would be worn smooth, but even the spots not in way of the bearing have a MUCH smoother surface finish. It has the rough finish on the splines, but was machined smooth for the bearings, you can see the surface finish difference in the pics. The new cv, does not have this difference.

Oem inner cv bearing surface, note: even where the bearing doesn’t ride is very smooth, which is what the original surface would have been for the bearing as well:





@05Taco4x4 cv surfaces:





Tough to see but the oem bearing surface is machined much smoother than the ones provided in the kit.

The OP would not meet up locally in person, so there is no way in hell I am sending him a postal money order for 100 dollars and his old parts back. What a joke, hiding behind his computer screen, insiting it’s everyone else's problem not his. Sad it’s come to that.

He stated I assumed too much, here is 2 of his made in china hubs he uses that I ordered on my own. 40 bucks on rock auto. Same style markings, same hub, same needle bearing. Guess what, one will barely slide on my cv, one doesn’t fit at all like my problem one. LOL. They are different sizes out of the box...china woohoo!

You be the judge...

His hub:

$58 Durago 295-95157 Wheel Hub (Front)

Durago 295-95157:



Look at the sticker under the sticker... china



Other members have rebuilt his kit and used the same hub above. Theirs did fit and work without issue. Leads me to believe the quality control isn’t there on the non-oem parts and its a roll of the dice if you get stuff that will work or not.

Im going to lightly polish the surface of the cv where the bearing rides to try and get a little better fit between it and the one (only) hub out of the 3 that will go on the cv the easiest. I have a tacoma for parts lined up that I am going to get the front hubs/spindles off of, so I can press out those hubs, put a new needle bearing in them, and then run them on my truck. This durago stuff is crap, but should hold me over for now.

The hub bearing flange and bolts are all available so you can assemble your own. It is simply 95-00 tacoma non add hubs pressed into a 05 bearing and bearing bracket. Similar assembly process to prerunner front bearings. The problem lies in the interface of the cheaper aftermarket parts, the china hub and the unknown quality cv have variances in the ID and OD in the needle bearing location. I can make it work since the OP is hiding behind a computer screen when his parts don’t fit, but it’s frustrating.

 

Also, did you ever measure the OD of the shaft? Mine is 30.02 - 30.05mm depending on where i measure it. The bearing ID is 30mm. I didn't look up the min max tolerances for the bearing, but that kind of slight oversize would lead to this exact problem. Hubs have the same loose tolerance so if you get the right set, all is good, and if not, then it just barely won’t fit properly.

 

Along the line of the post but nothing to do with the products or design provided by 05Taco4x4.
My neighbor came to me with the same problem with his 2000 Tacoma. One of the 2 hubs ordered from rock auto had the same problem with the needle bearing issue causing a fitment problem with the axle stub.

Seems like the Manufacturer is having QA issues.

 

Nice! I like when I have to purchase extra/spare parts of a product just to get it to work correctly the first time.

 

That bearing surface on the CV stub is HORRIBLE. I have done a fair amount of lathe work and I can tell you that part was made with too fast of a feed for use as a surface for rollers to run on. All the parts I build have a smoother finish than that, even if it’s just cosmetics. Ideally that bearing surface should have been ground to achieve the final bearing surface. Even if a grinding process is not used, it’s still very possible to achieve a much nicer surface with a lathe.