Intro to fitting 35s (< 3" Lifts for those that wheel and love alignments)

FIFY

 

Losing caster was in the first paragraph of my old post.

I've never heard that about turning, I'd need to see an actual example or demonstration to believe it on our trucks with how the spindle is set up. In reality I don't even see how that matters that much, if you're bumped out and smashing a tire into the firewall all the change in turning clearance doesnt help.

 

Careful asking him to clarify himself. He might troll you for hours afterward.

 

No it doesn't when you are fully stuffed, I was saying that for just normal driving around town. So increased or decreased caster from 0 just like spacers has an affect on the arch in which the turns, this is also like you were mentioning in the part about the hub in relation to the ball joints has an affect on the arch as well. The biggest thing I see which people never account for is the dynamic side of things and only focus on the static. But that post you made was the most spot on I've seen.

 

Bait only works of fish.

 

I guess you are a fish then since you took my bait? lol

The internet is full of paradoxes.

I wish there was a machine learning tool that cleaned up stupid posts like mine. They are mostly entertaining to those involved and not so much to those that come later to find actual information. I typically refrain from responding to trolls for that reason, but I am in a surly mood today.

 

Thank you very much for the info. Cheers!

 

Do you have actual diagrams or numbers, or write ups to show how this makes a meaningful effect?

 

Why should I do a write up when there is plenty of published information on it. All you have to do is do a quick little search there are tons of diagrams about this and articles etc. I have seen it have meaningful effect on my own truck. Again this helps just for around town driving stuff as soon as you start really stuffing tires it's going to rub. Like you said only way to cure it is actually moving the hub forward in the wheel well. Also this won't work on every truck just like your suggestion of moving the lower ball joint forward wheel set up as well as a lot of other factors play into account there. Kind of a poor example but some use the movable caster wheels to describe this effect (I don't like that analogy).

Example my truck with Icon UCAs I could only get 3.5* caster maxed out with the LCA cams set to gain as much as possible, rubbed my firewall like crazy both sides. Switched to JBAs gained almost 1* caster no rub whatsoever on my old tires. Nothing else changed with the caster setting on the LCAs.

 

I never agreed it was a 13% increase, I have stated multiple times that its about 0.5". That said, long travel kits are another animal all together and very expensive; It costs nothing to have a spacer removed. If I want meaningful suspension travel I'll SAS the front which will happen in a matter of time (darn tone rings). No one will disagree that longer shock travel in general is better but most that go to those lengths (including myself) aren't doing it for 0.5". That said I do have ext shocks in the front of my truck because its a free option but there has never once been a situation where the truck really benefited from it. The rear however is running 12" shocks and others run 14". In those cases you are seeing 4-6" of additional shock travel.

 

Yes exactly you are on the right track there. I can show better than explain or draw something. You're right about the racing bit in many different forms. I'm use to working on the dynamic side and just using static info for what'll happen dynamically.

Now you've done it with the rear shock travel here we go. Round and round the mulberry bush once again.

I'm one of those 14" travel shock guys soon to be 16s in the rear no bed hackery.

You should drive one the length of mine. What trails are that tight out there? I completely agree on your assessment that these things are big and cumbersome but it's so much fun going places others think you need solid axle this or jeep/buggy that.

 

Gonna stop with your JK? Build and make your taco a SAS monstrosity?

 

I’m not disagreeing with you but I think we are referring to two slightly different things. I am referring to 1” of wheel travel and i think you are referring to 0.5” of shock travel. Am I wrong? In any case, from what I have read, stock shock travel is approximately 5” so +0.5” is 10%; about the same. I’m not trying to be super precise because I have not found reliable measurements online and I haven’t measured anything myself.

 

I tried looking, so if there's tons of published information help me out here. You've got enough time to post almost 30k times in 3 years but can't bother to provide a link?

The core issue that I have with what you said that increasing caster increases clearance at the firewall while turning, however increasing caster at the UCA moves the tire slightly closer to the firewall. By claiming that caster increases turning clearance you're saying that even though the tire is physically closer to the firewall the tire will be further while turning
That is what's hard to believe.

 

Ok I'll try my best to explain it as the best sources you have to pay. First do you have a grasp of SAI, scrub radius, toe out on turn, how caster effects camber on turns, and all those measurements? While you answer that I'll look for a decent free publication. Other wise I can link you multiple books you can buy.
This thesis kinda explains it.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/45f9/baa2d947104abe8a595e87a64202f6dc45b1.pdf
here is a resource place
https://www.motor.com/products/light-duty-data-products/
and some books
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...&ved=0ahUKEwi6gYSt8dfoAhXLmOAKHd8FAbUQ8wIIwwQ
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...&ved=0ahUKEwi6gYSt8dfoAhXLmOAKHd8FAbUQ8wII-QM
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...&ved=0ahUKEwi6gYSt8dfoAhXLmOAKHd8FAbUQ8wII0AQ

 

In the time it has taken you guys to argue over semantics and who understands a concept better, you could just bash some metal with a hammer and the tires wont rub anymore.

To everyone else reading this thread. If you want 35s, they wont fit without aftermarket parts and lots of rubbing/trimming/bashing, regardless of what the verbose members of this site have to say.

 

yes. .5” shock travel, about 1” travel at wms end of things. Problem is in actual use...wheeling it, that extra inch is negligible. You likely won’t notice it, you can theory and math it to death, but when you are twisted up wheeling, lifting a tire, 1” is nothing. Actual differences between our trucks can change those numbers and you may only end up with .5” more than you had before. You can run aftermarket UCAs and get more adjustment, that will help fit 35’s but you could possibly do it with stock by modding something else. These guys are trying to give you the more practical answer. I was a mechanical retailer for near 10 years. I was a mech engineering and math major in college, I understand where you are coming from. The issue here is of very minute details. Don’t over think the whole extended travel thing, it’s not a huge gain. Long travel is a different monster completely. me personally, brought up the idea of sas on this forum back in 2015 right after I got my 2016 TRD OR, and people went crazy. Telling how long it will take, how impractical, expensive. But good points were brought up. Current plan to fit 35’s is small lift, bash fenders, and use the info from this very thread to dial in my alignment.

 

Biggest question for me, how am I gonna carry my 35” spare. No desire to have the tire gate in the back, not gonna leave it in the bed. My 32 barely fits between the diff and the hitch tube from my hi clearance bumper.

 

Can we take a moment to appreciate this particular dynamic isn't exactly an easy observation to google and find a demonstration and its not just a quick little search? You don't remember the specific source you got this information from?

I looked through the free one twice and couldn't find anything about the specific thing we are discussing. Either I missed it twice or its extrapolated from the equations or matrices.

It looks like everything else has to be paid for and may or may not contain the information I specifically want.

I understand what you're talking about, I'm just skeptical of the magnitude of the effect.

I'll likely be pulling my front end apart before the end of the month. I'll take measurements and compare them to see how much of a difference they make on a +2 kit. I can't really move my rear cams anymore since they are modified for a larger fastener, but I'll take comparisons moving the front cam and also from adjusting the UCAs. When I had it apart a couple weeks ago I did check to see how much of a difference all the way out / all the way in on the front cam, bumped and locked but didn't make any observations with the tire straight in any position so I'm unable to compare it in a meaningful way for this subject.

Also thinking about it, if increasing caster improves turning clearance at the back of the tire, does that then mean that it will make rubbing in the front worse, like where everyone who cruises around the desert where everyone rubs under the battery / windshield fluid reservoir?

I know right, how about this thread get back to answering the same handful of questions that have been answered a thousand times between the 3rd gen and 2nd gen forums. Bunch of assholes in here trying to learn something.

 

Specific source many many books 3 of which I linked you and over 20 yrs build race cars and racing The magnitude well like I said it's enough to help may not get a lot. It's for those mall crawler bunch. Like what you said in your it isn't a simple pushing the tire away getting new UCAs. And yes you are correct about loosing clearance in the front because. Full bump and rubbing those areas is a totally different story with the arc in which our UCA rides you gain caster as it travels upward. What effect that has on crashing those areas I have not idea. I'm going to start cycling mine and well hacking everything that comes into contact with the tire.

None of us said anything to that we all said you're gonna have to clearance stuff once you start cycling the suspension and I would bet most of us are either letting the tires clearance themselves or hacking and bashing away a little bit at a time to gain clearance.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I got mine up against the front of the bed mounted vertically, Best pics I got There are also a lot of aftermarket bumpers that offer swingouts with tire carriers. Some will support some pretty massive and heavy combos.