New Pirelli Scorpion A/T Plus Installed

I can’t find any difference between the Toyo 3pms vs the Pirelli 3pms. Both have the symbol but you say one isn’t a real symbol? And apparently all weather isn’t the same as all season. All weather is a different standard than all season. Gee whiz tires are complicated.

 

I agree. I thought all Terrain was a winter tire at first.

 

Just want to be sure there’s no confusion for anyone interested in the Scorpions. They are in fact 3 Peak Mountain Certified. Just like any other tire that also carries the marking.

 

I see this thread is active again since I posted earlier. I've had my Pirelli tires since November and can give a better evaluation. We didn't have any snow here this winter so I can't comment. But with 3 peak certification I've got to think they would be good. Highway ride has been good. They are ever so slightly stiffer than the old P rated tires, but not objectionable at all. Remember, I have these on my F150, not my Tacoma.

I've driven enough to get a good feel for fuel mileage. I've lost 1.5 mpg overall. I still don't think that had anything to do with weight. I went to a 1" wider tire, 2" taller and with a much more aggressive tread which is where the difference is. I have the older Pirelli tires in an E rating on my Tacoma. They are 15 lbs each heavier, but are much closer to the same size and tread compared to factory and fuel mileage is exactly the same on the Tacoma.

I did get several chances to use them in mud. This is me dragging a downed tree out of the way on a forest service road while hunting. I'm on pretty solid dirt here, but 5-10' behind the truck the mud is 6-8" deep. By the time I got the tree clear of the road I was in pretty deep mud. The wheels spun some, but I never stopped moving until I had the tree out of the road.


Just for reference. When deciding on tires BFG KO2's were on my list. I'd seen the Pirelli's online, but not in person. When I say them side by side I liked the Pirelli's better. Plus they were a lot cheaper.

 

Tire Rack has this note...

Note: While non-winter tires featuring the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol provide additional longitudinal snow traction beyond what all-season (M+S) tires not bearing the symbol can deliver, they do not match the capability of a true winter tire in all adverse weather conditions.

More confusing information that all-season tires may also include 3PMSF symbol...

"Originally used as a designation for winter tires, the 3PMSF symbol is now featured on some all-season and all-terrain tires with snow performance that meets the testing criteria."

https://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=125


The Pirelli Scorpion A/T does have the 3PMSF symbol. Also edited my earlier post...

Edit: The Pirelli Scorpion A/T is 3 Peak certified (All-Weather). BFG KO2 and the Toyo Open Country AT3 is also 3 Peak certified and "Mountain Snowflake qualified for severe snow conditions" (Winter).

 

I don’t see this as confusing. Tire rack is saying that 3 peak symbol tires are not dedicated winter tires so they won’t be as good.

For the second part they’re saying that the 3 peak symbol is not used for snow tires anymore but instead for all season and all terrain tires that meet certain requirements. All season tires and all terrain tires don’t always have the 3 peak symbol. Only the ones that perform better in the snow do. Like your Toyos or my Pirellis.

 

I like your choice in tires, a major improvement over the stock Dunlop Grandtrek AT20 P245/75R16 109S SL (2,271 lbs)

vs the Pirelli Scorpion AT 265/75R16 116T SL (2,760 lbs)

Also here is a link at Toyo pdf document that talks about load capacity regarding P metric tires when used on a light truck (Page 5)...

https://www.toyotires.com/media/2125/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf

 

That link is pretty interesting. From the chart, if you had a TRD Sport with 265/65/17, and switched to LT265/70/17, you would need to inflate them to 50 psi to make the load rating equal to the original tires.

 

The load of a P265/65/17/110 @ 29 is 2,149 lbs...

After de-rating(going from a P/Euro metric to LT), the load for an LT is 1,954 lbs(2,149/1.1=1,954)

An LT265/70/17 attains a load of 1,964 lbs at 37 psi.

And just for shits and grins...a 265/75/16/116 requires 27 psi(2,178 lbs).

 

Actually 45 PSI with a LT265/70R17 would provide 2255 lbs if compared to the 265/65R17 112 SL (Goodyear Wrangler w/Kevlar) 2149 lbs @ 30 PSI (page 28).

If you look at the LT265/70R17 load inflation table (page 22)...1890 lbs @ 35 PSI, 2075 @ 40 PSI and 2255 lbs @ 45 PSI

Load capacity increases as you reach the maximum PSI for each load rated tire...

LT265/70R17 Maximum 2470 lbs @ 50 PSI for C-Load 112
LT265/70R17 Maximum 2910 lbs @ 65 PSI for D-Load 118
LT265/70R17 Maximum 3195 lbs @ 80 PSI for E-Load 121

So yes, more air for LT tires to meet ISO metric tires load capacity.

Edit: 2149 lbs @ 30 PSI

 

Just some errors I wanted to point out...

The OEM Sport tire is a P265/65/17/109
The OEM Offroad/Pro tire is a 265/70/16/112
You've conflated the two...






So 2,149 lbs-2,172 lbs for P and Euro metric tires.

You neglected to account for de-rating of P and Euro metric tires when changing to LTs. See page 11 of PDF...
So 2,149 becomes 2,149/1.1=1,954 lbs...or 37 psi @ 1,964 lbs.

 

The only error I made was using the word "stock" when comparing the ISO Metric tire to the LT metric tires. There was no intention of discussing the P metric tires which is a different topic you were commenting on.

Still like your post on stock tires.

 

This is what you wrote...
"265/65R17 112 SL (Goodyear Wrangler w/Kevlar) 2227 lbs @ 32 PSI".
This tire does not exist and that pressure is for the SR5 P245/75/16/109.
It's either a Goodyear Adventure Kevlar 265/70/16/112 or a Firestone Destination P265/65/17/110.
Like I said, you conflated the Sport's tire size and Offroad's load rating...with the SR5's tire pressure.

 

265/65R17 112 SL Goodyear Wrangler w/Kevlar....product code 758061571

https://www.goodyear.ca/en-CA/tires...ave&webprodid=2732&productcode=75806157100000

$269+ Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure with Kevlar Tires

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...n Adventure with Kevlar&partnum=665TR7WATAOWL

32 was the PSI I chose from adjusting my wife's car tire pressure today. Made the correction from 32 to 30 PSI. No problem, changes nothing. Has really no effect to your problems.

Your 1st problem: The above tire does exist and if you look at your ISO metric chart 2227 lbs is under 32 PSI column for 112 load index, which may be the same as many other vehicles not mentioned here like the SR or SR5 which comes with 245 series tires.

Your 2nd problem: You comment is on P metric tires and was not quoted.

Your 3rd problem: You concerned with P245/75/16/109, again P metric, 245mm width and 16" tire. (I compared an ISO to a LT of same size 265mm and 17")

Thanks again for you input about P metric tires. Personally I feel P metric tires on a light truck is the poorest decision Toyota made on the Tacoma. ISO metric minimum or LT tires on the Tacoma is my opinion.

 

I get that your'e speaking in the abstract...but this is a Tacoma forum.
Just trying to keep the conversation pertinent.

 

Pertinent would be referring to the Toyo pdf which has load index tables in it. Anyone reading this would have to assume 37 PSI was calculated correctly as it is not on the chart.
Difficult for others to decode and think WTF?

Having a Sport with P265/65R17 and changing to LT265/70R17 is pertinent and just for shits and grins P265/65R17 to 265/75R16 would be impertinent.

Finally, having a Sport with P265/65R17 110 SL 1,954 lbs (2,149/1.1=1,954) @ 29 PSI and changing to 265/70R17 112 SL 2469 lbs @ 51 PSI max could be run at what PSI would be more pertinent.

Would you choose 2149 lbs @ 30 PSI or the de-rating P metric load index of 1954 lbs near 27 PSI?

 

Just so everyone can know where 37 PSI came from you divided the lbs between 35 and 40 PSI by 5 and got 37 LBS/PSI. Adding 74 LBS to the 35 PSI chart value of 1,890 = 1,964 lbs.

To equal the P265/65/17/110 de-rated load index of 1,954 lbs the LT265/70/17 pressure would be adjusted to 36.73 PSI.
For a load index of 2,149 lbs the LT265/70/17 pressure would be adjusted to 42.1 (42.0553) PSI.


Now for your soup sandwich...P metric P265/65R17 to ISO metric 265/70R17 112 SL

You already said the P-metric de-rated load index is 1,954 lbs would you choose 27 PSI to match the de-rated load index or choose 30 PSI for 2,149 lbs circled in the chart for the Tacoma TRD Sport?

Why adjust different metrics to different load index's that makes no sense, how you do...

 

So The P/euro-metric vs LT is confusing but just to confuse everything a little more. P/euro-metric tires load ratings are not equal to LT because P-metic max loads are not to be ran at for an extended period of time and LT max loads can be run at max for an extended period of time.

Since P-metric tires are not ment to be run at max load for a extended period of time it doesnt mattter that they have a slightly higher load carrying capcity because it doesnt not help you in real world applications.

 

Does anyone have any long term reviews on the Pirelli? Tire Rack and other online reviews are overwhelmingly positive but its still so new of a tire.
I am considering it vs. the Falken Wildpeaks. Mostly pavement for me, but a few times a month take it off road. I live out west so rocks are always around. The Pirelli E rated tire weight is on par with the SL wildpeak which sounds like it would be worth running the E rated Pirelli if I go with them