3rd Gen 3.5V6 motor mounts

i haven't seen a power gain claim here. I'm not looking at this as that kind of modification. this is about getting another notch of directness at the throttle for chassis control. these look like a perfect complement to my setup and mod plan.

 

It's in the 3rd screen cap you posted. And in all caps no less.

 

Yes, he's not saying it's "adding power", but saying that you'll get less "loss" is basically the equivalent.

That's cool that you're potentially getting these. As I said, I'm open to them, but for my own sake, I just have more research to do on the matter.

 

I'm not here to argue you know, but saying more power to the tires is about getting your power delivered downstream, that's not a power gain that you can argue about. he's not claiming a power gain, seems clear to me anyway, not an issue, it's about not losing energy in a sloppy drivetrain and that's what I've been cleaning up for 3 years.

 

i drive the shit out of my truck and throw it around like it should be. and while i run the motor above 3k for an hour at a time, i treat the drivetrain respectfully with a give & take approach. so I'm not concerned with tearing anything up. i have improved the throttle response in stages through the life of the truck, and this looks to be a big step forward potentially with sharpening the power delivery up. if i feel it's pushing stress on components, I'm the driver and I can take care of that at the throttle. not a problem.

 

So the reasoning sounds kind of dumb to me. It's basically saying that even though you put on this super gucci suspension and have it tuned so you can bomb through the desert you some how now have a weak point in the motor mount.

I've found motor mount bolts are more likely to rust and fail than the rubber bushing.

 

I get that and I agree with you, but the way it's being marketed is not "get back some power that it being wasted in soft rubber." Instead it comes off as "new motor mounts and you're off to the dragstrip." I refuse to believe however that new motor mounts will result in a noticeable "in acceleration and grip" (his words) and that this claim from customers is not just confirmation bias until I am proven otherwise. I'm sure they are stronger than factory motor mounts and should be advertised as such, but this isn't going to do anything significant to a 0-60 time. And if you do end up buying them I genuinely would look forward to some of that data from you. . Hopefully this didn't come off as argumentative as that's not what I'm getting at here.

 

all good I'm open and happy to discuss.

but i won't provide data. I'm not sure what that would even be. it's not about anything objective, I'm not competing or chasing numbers.

i can't really explain this much, but my truck is setup in an entirely different way than most and it's setup for a specific kind of handling. my steering control comes primarily from the throttle, so when i see something like this i consider what it can do as an integrated part of the steering. my throttle control on this truck is already surprisingly good. imagine what this can do for me especially in low power & light throttle situations simply to control the truck. my thinking here is probably opposite of what you'd expect. I'm not looking at these for higher power & higher throttle benefits, rather to get more control delivered at all power/throttle levels especially down low where it's at a premium. my truck config and driving style are all about this.

 

All good discussion, I'll attempt to clarify.

I started making custom fabricated drivetrain mounts back in 2003 when we were off road racing in the deserts of SoCal, Nevada and Baja. A solid mounted drivetrain is a standard setup on any off road truck that is raced or used as a prerunner. Running OEM mounts off road in a race would result in a broken race truck immediately and losing the race. Any of you guys that have ran your trucks in the desert know how abusive it can be. Bolting on long travel suspension helps and increases how fast you can go but will only add more stress to the truck because you are now going faster and hitting things harder. I know because Ive been there many many times. As stated, the factory mounts are mostly designed around noise cancellation and muffling engine harmonics that could be felt in the cab. This is why soft rubber is used. Its a dampener. Unfortunately it dry rots, cracks and de-laminates quickly. It also flexes heavily. This is fine for a factory truck. Or a truck that only sees towing or mild offroading (flat fire roads, camping, etc)

I make parts for trucks that are used off road. Driven hard, fast, bounced around, jumped, raced, etc. Thinking your OEM mounts will keep your drivetrain held securely while doing that is a recipe for disaster. Ive outlined all the benefits and the damage risk using OEM mounts, in the instagram screenshots and the previous posts. So ill just go more into detail about the "power" issue. So all our motors will torque to the right (passenger side) when we accelerate. This is the rotating mass of the motor attempting to lift itself off the frame from the power it produces. Doing this over and over isn't necessarily bad, if this is occurring on the flat street. The only thing you'll have to worry about is the slow deterioration of the motor mount rubber over time. Just like any part it will eventually wear out. However, doing this over un-even, rugged, tooth rattling unpredictable terrain is a different story. Doing it at high speed is another story. Now you have the drivetrain trying to twist off the chassis, and the whole truck being tossed around, shaken, vibrated and possibly taking impacts that send shock through the vehicle. Any axle wrap and moments of traction loss from the tires leaving the ground is exacerbated by this as well. Basically, you are experiencing a decent degree of parasitic power loss thru your drivetrain as lost energy that isn't making it to the ground. So you are not "making more power" with upgraded drivetrain mounts, but you are losing less power and making more efficient use of the applicable power on hand produced at the flywheel. I just did not have the room or ability to add all this to the instagram post, sorry if it sounded misleading.

Lets talk dyno...good points. Dyno numbers "don't lie". However every dyno will spit out a different HP and TQ curve. Ive seen trucks make "X" amount of power on one dyno and then make 50 HP less on a different one with zero tune changes. So they are an important tool...but not the end all be all of results. Many a time in my experience have I seen a truck with 100 less dyno HP blow the doors off another truck that had a monster engine. There are many factors into what makes a truck fast or handle better than another truck besides crank HP...or wheel HP on the dyno. However, unless you could invent a dyno that would mimic off road conditions, there most likely wont be a HP to the ground gain by running a truck with stock motor mounts and then running the same truck with upgraded motor mounts. Both trucks will be tested on flat ground, on the smooth rollers with no real world off road conditions such as stated above. I base my claim on first hand experience, from feeling the increase in acceleration and knowing what is physically occurring under the floor boards. I also have almost 2 decades of customer and racer feedback to substantiate this. All that stuff aside, I have sold about 10 sets of mounts to guys with S-Runners and X-Runners that do track and drag strip stuff and they swear on a stack of bibles that their is a few tenths of a second shaved off with the new motor mounts.

So does your 3.5V6 need an upgraded motor mount? Depends on what you are doing and what you plan on doing. That is the question!

 

thanks for the clarity on this. i am on the same page for sure, and i appreciate the feedback from your customers over at iG.

my truck's getting the front end pulled for a second complete redo tomorrow, so timing is good.

 

Another note, Ive been on this board for years, there are multiple posts and threads on the 3.4 and 4.0 motor mounts that I sell with pages and pages of feedback and info!

 

Butt dyno numbers aside, I'd be concerned about unintended consequences. I'm sure if you thought there would be any consequences of installing these, you probably wouldn't be selling them. However, as you can see on the front page, simple additions, like dual batteries have had catastrophic consequences. Such as cracking sub frames, knocking off oil fill ports, etc... My hesitation in purchasing these motor mounts would be, not fully understanding how these mounts effect other parts of the frame structure.

It could be quite possible that the factory motor mounts are engineered to flex, which may create less stress on other parts of the frame (where they attach). When you remove that flex from the mount, how does that impact the attachment points on the frame? It may be negligible or a non-factor, but again, that's what gives me pause, and why I'll need to dig a little deeper into the subject.

However, I appreciate the input you've given thus far.

 

Always do your research. These trucks are big investments and you should never modify a vehicle without understanding what you are doing, and aware of any un-intended negative after effects. To this date after almost 2 decades of testing off road and selling hundreds to people all over the world, I can say I have found none that even come close to the negative things that happen when your stock motor mounts start to fail.

 

This was our 3.5 test truck, not sure if any of you are familiar with the truck or owner

 

First of all saying that you are somehow getting power loss from an engine flexing due to soft motor mounts is a joke. If nothing changes in drivetrain and your tires don’t loose traction which wouldn’t be affected by a rear wheel drive trucks motor mounts then there is no added loss to the tires regardless if it has rubber motor mounts or is welded to the frame. You are making a lot of lofty claims with no evidence to back it up on third gen trucks. Probably the only advantage would be on trucks with forced induction and producing a lot more torque than a stock truck Because the rubber will fail prematurely and for shift feeling on manual transmission trucks.

 

Good engine mounts and drivetrain control are a vital part of any good build. Many cars even have active mounts these days, they stiffen up, or even go solid, for required conditions... the Land Cruiser 200 w/ 4.5L twin turbo diesel has vacuum units. Porsche uses a magnetic fluid, I believe.

I will be messing with the system on my Taco, already have some parts on the shelf. Throttle response and clutch take up are frequently improved... I say OP speaks the truth.

 

Maybe power gain and loss are words that shouldn't be use in conjunction with motor mounts cause that doesn’t make sense. Whether they are rubber, poly, or just straight solid mounted. I think what is going on and trying to be said is the amount of flex that’s in rubber mounts causes a lot of movement before the truck starts going under hard acceleration and changing to poly will stop that and make the set up feel more solid and possibly peppy. I know in jeeps that I have build over there years the poly does vibrate more but when poly motor mounts and trans mounts are used the Jeeps seem quicker in a way.

 

My brother has a 500+ hp Subaru BRZ. When we changed the rear diff mounts, motor mounts, and trans mounts we could tell for sure that little bastard put the power to the ground sooner than with factory stuff. But then again factory power is 200hp. But same concept.

 

Man, honestly, I think this thread lost more customers than gained. Probably would have been better to just fire and forget.

 

Dammit man, no wonder there's no dipstick for the transmission. If this demographic gets any dumber they're gonna have to seal off the cab on these trucks.