That >8,000 lb. winch is a waste of money.

US Marine · Aug 24, 2020

ovrlndkull said: ↑

That looks like fun. I'm in
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Nat Park service closed that trail 20 years ago , now you can only hike up the canyon now

Thatbassguy · Aug 24, 2020

US Marine said: ↑

this trail in the Panamint Valley section of Death Valley called Surprise Canyon is a brutal test on winches . The waterfall section has seven very steep and slippery waterfalls in a 3/4 mile distance

It usually takes a few hours to get maybe ten Jeeps thru this section . The jeep in front of you attaches your free spooled cable to his hitch and brings it to the section of trail you winch from

On the way down the jeep behind you slows your decent with his winch attached to your bumper . I've run this trail twice and have seen many winches catch on fire from overheating

https://youtu.be/aWvqwzWENSY
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Holy shit! That's a whole lot of nope right there!

ovrlndkull · Aug 24, 2020

US Marine said: ↑

Nat Park service closed that trail 20 years ago , now you can only hike up the canyon now
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Well poo on you, you just killed all my hopes and dreams it's like tellico all over again

TomHGZ · Aug 24, 2020

Thatbassguy said: ↑

I have one. It's spooled around my winch.

What is the cost of 200' of BWII+ rope? I assume it's cheap and fits in a back pack?
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Well, yes, but also importantly, it finds 100 other uses when not being used for recovery.

US Marine · Aug 24, 2020

Thatbassguy said: ↑

Holy shit! That's a whole lot of nope right there!

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It was a fun trail , I did it twice

ovrlndkull · Aug 24, 2020

US Marine said: ↑

It was a fun trail , I did it twice
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Stop rubbing it in.

Thatbassguy · Aug 24, 2020

US Marine said: ↑

It was a fun trail , I did it twice
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That's hardcore!

JCOOR · Aug 24, 2020

TomHGZ[OP] initial post: ↑

Title to catch eyes, but hear me out: putting an >8,000 lb. winch on a Toyota Tacoma is a massive waste of money for the vast majority of Tacoma drivers.

Chances are you paid more than $500 for your big winch, paid another $1000 for the bumper to hold it, and now the weight pulls the front of your truck down, makes it handle like a soggy sloppy joe sandwich, saps its already meager fuel economy, and you could have spent the money on something else you wanted. The net loss for your daily driver now far exceeds the occasional utility the winch provides.

Alternatively, take half an hour learn how to set up some mechanical advantage systems. We like to talk about "know how to use your hi-lift jack before you need it on the trail." Knowing how to set up mechanical advantage systems are arguably just as useful, and maybe more.

And we already use snatch blocks: sometimes we use them as a simple change-of-direction pulley; sometimes we use them as a 2:1 mechanical advantage. Why stop at 2:1?

Setting up a 4:1 system with a 3,000 lb. ATV winch yields 12,000 lbs. of pull, which exceeds the working load of most synthetic line. ATV winches are far lighter than truck winches; you can stow them in your tool box and use them front or back as you please, and you can buy one that will do the job for $100. Spend another $100 on some pulleys, webbing, and a couple prusik loops to set up your 4:1 system, and you now have the equivalent of a 12,000 lb. winch for $200. And setting up a high ratio MA system on the trail yields good style points.

There are some disadvantages: You won't be able to project that tough guy image you love so much if you are not wearing your winch out front on the pavement. Setting up for a pull can take a little longer. The pulls themselves will take longer. You'll have to learn something new, and well enough that you can repeat it under stress. And you will want to learn how to brake and reset your mechanical advantage system mid-pull, because you won't get as much pull distance from your line.

But then you no longer have to drive your chonky winch to work. You don't have to buy new coil springs (or dial up your preload) to compensate for the winch and bumper that just ruined your lift height. Your truck won't feel like your reflection in a funhouse mirror when you shoot the curves on the backroads. And you can pull from the front, back, or even the sides with all those fun pulleys you now have.

Just my opinion. If anyone is already using MA systems that are more complex than the simple 2:1's for vehicle recovery, share your experiences.
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Why are you so concerned how others spend their money?

sabasarge · Aug 24, 2020

Rock Lobster said: ↑

I personally prefer to get unstuck using the tried and true tech that the ancients used. A long ass rope, a team of 50 barbarian warriors, and a big drum to signal the "heave ho". Works every time.
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I dunno about “barbarian“, but I think a few “Amazonian's” like this, with their steeds could probably pull you out of just about anything. And if not, you probably won’t mind all that much.

jowybyo · Aug 24, 2020

ovrlndkull said: ↑

OP must be use to measuring things <6" at a time
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Hey. 4” is average.

Grindstone · Aug 24, 2020

TomHGZ[OP] said: ↑

I’m hearing a lot of scenarios where >8,000 lb. winches did not work, being put forward as evidence for why we should install >8,000 lb. winches. For those of you that used tractors or cranes to get you out, do you now carry tractors and cranes with you every time you go out?

I’m also hearing a lot of people argue that they would need different or additional anchor points to implement mechanical advantage. MA does not increase the weight of your truck. The anchor you use for a 1:1 pull is also the anchor you use for a 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, or 9:1 for that matter.

I can see my big mistake here is taking for granted that everyone carries a long length of good rope. I would have thought someone who spends the money to purchase a >8K winch would also be carrying a long length of rope. My suggestion of using an ATV winch was based on the assumption that you have a recovery rope, which, apparently, many don’t have.

If the majority of your recovery line is only what you have spooled on your winch drum, an ATV winch is absolutely not going to work for you. Also, if that’s what you’re doing, you are likely to get in a situation at some point where your winch is not going to have the length you need to get you out.

I’ve used BWII+ rope with good luck. I’ve had the same 200 foot length for more than ten years, and it’s just now starting show age. I broke one by pulling a loaded moving truck sunk to its axles in mud with an F350, but it’s generally good enough for all things Tacoma as long as you protect it from sharp corners.
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Where's the demo reel?

US Marine · Aug 24, 2020

Thatbassguy said: ↑

That's hardcore!
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One of times I did run that trail I watched Marlin from Marlin Crawlers climb up those waterfalls in his 1981 Toyota making it look easy

Chunk · Aug 24, 2020

I mean the best thing about this thread is now I know I can fit a mini winch in my decked for when @ovrlndkull HC’s! Saves me gas monies! Thanks OP!

ovrlndkull · Aug 24, 2020

TomHGZ[OP] said: ↑

Well, yes, but also importantly, it finds 100 other uses when not being used for recovery.
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And we don't use climbing rope for winching or recovering a vehicle the proper tool for the proper job. Personally mine gets used for normal rope shit. I'd buy some amsteel winch extension before this for recovery purposes.

Thatbassguy · Aug 24, 2020

TomHGZ[OP] said: ↑

Well, yes, but also importantly, it finds 100 other uses when not being used for recovery.
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I just don't have any use for a rope that strong.

Meanwhile my bumper does a good job of holding my beer. I'm sure other beverages would fit on there as well, but I haven't tried yet.

ovrlndkull · Aug 24, 2020

McRib said: ↑

I mean the best thing about this thread is now I know I can fit a mini winch in my decked for when @ovrlndkull HC’s! Saves me gas monies! Thanks OP!
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Damnit
Now I'm never getting unstuck again or at least not in a timely fashion.

Thatbassguy · Aug 24, 2020

whatstcp said: ↑

great, where's the video of you fumbling with 9 snatch blocks around a tree
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ovrlndkull · Aug 24, 2020

US Marine said: ↑

One of times I did run that trail I watched Marlin from Marlin Crawlers climb up those waterfalls in his 1981 Toyota making it look easy
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We got a couple trails down here in what was Grey rock OHV. One is little bath tub the other is cable hill. Crazy how the bouncers can make it look really hard then an old 22r yot pulls up running on propane and idles up them

go2cnavy · Aug 24, 2020

TomHGZ[OP] said: ↑

A 3K ATV winch plus 2 double pulleys cost $200 total, weighs 25 lbs, and fits in a backpack.

With another five pounds of hardware you can quickly attach it to any tow hitch or hook as long as the vehicle has a battery. That’s utility.

If 4 pulleys is too complicated, we shouldn’t be wheeling.
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Bye. You don’t wheel. If I have to setup a 4-6 pulley system every time.... dumb.

Thatbassguy · Aug 24, 2020

US Marine said: ↑

One of times I did run that trail I watched Marlin from Marlin Crawlers climb up those waterfalls in his 1981 Toyota making it look easy
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That would have been very cool to see!

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That >8,000 lb. winch is a waste of money.

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Chunk I smell Ice Cream!

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Thatbassguy Sweet or sour?

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