1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Death Valley Off-Road Adventures

Discussion in 'Off-Roading & Trails' started by Crom, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. Aug 22, 2020 at 10:46 AM
    #3961
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,102
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    Sure. But you want to be careful what else is burned-plants and vegetation that require long periods of time to regrow is more what I'm thinking of.
     
  2. Aug 22, 2020 at 10:55 AM
    #3962
    US Marine

    US Marine Semper Fi

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Member:
    #182227
    Messages:
    14,691
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chuck
    Gallatin Tennessee
    Vehicle:
    02 Pre Runner supercharged 4cyl
    TRD supercharger , Doug Thorley header , K&N CAI 265/75-16 Toyo open country mud terrain , 15x8 Method Racing wheels , Rancho 3" lift , 4.88 gears , Detroit Locker
    I'm more concerned about further damage done to the Joshua Trees , it takes at least 60 years for them to grow into maturity
     
    trailbound and BalutTaco like this.
  3. Aug 22, 2020 at 12:09 PM
    #3963
    DVexile

    DVexile Exiled to the East

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Member:
    #144469
    Messages:
    2,662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ken
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB V6 TRD OR 4X4
    Again the issue is exotic grasses. They are well adapted to fire while the native Mojave species aren’t particularly. Thus the end result of burns, prescribed or wild, is the further expansion and entrenchment of exotic grasses and the displacement of native species in the burn area.

    I don’t know what the solution is and I’ve not seen that resource managers really do either. For the present though it appears fire of any kind in the Mojave is a bad thing. The native ecosystem doesn’t appear to benefit from fire in the way other southwestern ecosystems do.
     
  4. Aug 22, 2020 at 1:53 PM
    #3964
    Crom

    Crom [OP] Super-Deluxe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Member:
    #18782
    Messages:
    9,618
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Nick
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2009 4x4 DCSB Camp Supreme
    Millions
    I agree with @DVexile . This link sums it up nicely for the Mojave https://www.nps.gov/im/mojn/invasive-and-exotic-plants.htm

    Prescribed Burns in Forest areas are absolutely necessary for good management. Forest managers learn that the hard way in San Diego in 2003 & 2007 when Forest that hadn't burned in a hundred years finally burned and created a regional crisis the cause of devastation for thousands.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedar_Fire

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_Fire
     
  5. Aug 23, 2020 at 3:58 PM
    #3965
    mk5

    mk5 Probably wrong about this

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Member:
    #247373
    Messages:
    1,296
    Gender:
    Male
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    '05 access cab 4x4
    If more frequent burning isn't the answer for this ecosystem, could cutting and maintaining giant fire breaks help? It would be expensive and destroy lots of land, but maybe that's better than these gigantic wildfires?

    Fire breaks, if regularly maintained, might also provide barriers to invasive plant spread... or maybe it provide them with an expressway, I dont know.

    It is so tragic to see the joshua forests go up in flames.
     
    TacoEspecial and US Marine like this.
  6. Aug 23, 2020 at 4:46 PM
    #3966
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,102
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    Invasive species come in a variety of different ways. Boots, vehicles, wind blown, etc. Cutting huge fire breaks might help but I'm not sure it's the right thing either-aside from the scares it would leave, they also create erosion. I just don't know enough about deserts and managing the flora/fauna. Other than physically removing the non-native grasses, etc.
     
    mk5[QUOTED] likes this.
  7. Aug 26, 2020 at 4:21 PM
    #3967
    INBONESTRYKER

    INBONESTRYKER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Member:
    #152650
    Messages:
    662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    John
    WY
    Vehicle:
    '96 access cab 3.4 5 spd manual 4X4
  8. Aug 26, 2020 at 5:36 PM
    #3968
    Hobbs

    Hobbs Anti-Lander from way back…

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2016
    Member:
    #181838
    Messages:
    22,346
    Yep…
    Vehicle:
    Rock Bangen', Desert Tamin', Gold Findin' Machine!
    I suspect that this is fake news.
    I say so because there is a group of hard core Sierra Clubbers who do stuff like this. I have read reports of a man and woman who hiked "across" Death Valley in August several years ago. I am unsure of their route, but I suspect that a similar trek has been done.
     
    US Marine and Drainbung like this.
  9. Aug 27, 2020 at 6:55 AM
    #3969
    theick

    theick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2018
    Member:
    #273933
    Messages:
    203
    First Name:
    Eric
    Las Vegas
  10. Aug 27, 2020 at 8:14 AM
    #3970
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,102
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    Anybody else not know that Ubehebe Crater was once called "Coyote's Basket" by Native Americans?

    One of my favorite series is called Aerial America and today (it first aired in 2016), they're focusing on Southern California. It's fitting they should start with Death Valley.What's sort of ironic is the mention of the 134º max temp being the "hottest" in the world when just a couple of weeks ago, 136º became the record breaker.

    And they talk about the BW Marathon which actually goes through the Owens Valley...
     
    Drainbung, trailbound and US Marine like this.
  11. Sep 2, 2020 at 2:18 PM
    #3971
    monkeyface

    monkeyface Douchebag, or just douche if we're friends

    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    Member:
    #78740
    Messages:
    3,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    '90,'97,'12,'05 Tundra 4.7,'07 T4R 4.7,'08 T4R 4.7
    "Resource Managers" are two key words. They often create the same conditions that allow massive burns.

    For example, after the massive Hayman Fire southwest of Denver the official recovery plan was seed the area with fast growing non-native grass and plant pine saplings.

    That was stupid, locals planted native willows along the waterways as a firebreak. Recovery plan should have also included planting native buffalo grass and aspen. Just goofy to plant pines as a recovery effort when planting aspen would prevent a catastrophic fire for 50 years.
     
    ETAV8R, ian408 and Drainbung like this.
  12. Sep 2, 2020 at 2:41 PM
    #3972
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,102
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    The short fix produces trees and grasses immediately (nearly so) and hopefully prevents seasonal erosion. In the end, just makes the place a little more flammable.
     
    monkeyface[QUOTED] and Drainbung like this.
  13. Sep 6, 2020 at 8:42 PM
    #3973
    DVexile

    DVexile Exiled to the East

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Member:
    #144469
    Messages:
    2,662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ken
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB V6 TRD OR 4X4
    Drainbung, trailbound and ian408 like this.
  14. Sep 6, 2020 at 9:30 PM
    #3974
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,102
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    I think the article was pretty good.

    I'm pretty sure it's not just grazing. The reality is, all who visit may unknowingly spread and take seed. Whether it's on tires, your shoes as you hike through the park, birds, and so on. Maybe not the same rate as the cows though.
     
    Drainbung likes this.
  15. Sep 7, 2020 at 9:59 AM
    #3975
    DVexile

    DVexile Exiled to the East

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Member:
    #144469
    Messages:
    2,662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ken
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB V6 TRD OR 4X4
    Yes, now that the invasive species are there they spread plenty of ways other than by cattle. The were originally distributed by hitching a ride on the coats of grazers brought from Europe but now that they are here they spread just fine without the grazers.

    What was interesting to me in the article was that the dense Joshua tree forests like on Cima may have achieved their density only because of grazing. The grazers don’t eat the blackbrush which is a nursery species for Joshua trees. So you end up with a landscape with far more blackbrush than usual which then means far more Joshua tree seedlings can reach maturity than is usual. So these unusually dense Joshua tree forests that have become iconic are perhaps not natural to begin with!
     
  16. Sep 7, 2020 at 10:05 AM
    #3976
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,102
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    How these areas become what they are is a bit of a conundrum for sure.
     
    DVexile likes this.
  17. Sep 9, 2020 at 8:20 AM
    #3977
    another395Taco

    another395Taco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2020
    Member:
    #321429
    Messages:
    107
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ben
    Fort Collins, CO
    Vehicle:
    2014 Red T/X Baja
    GFC v2 Platform Camper, skids, sliders, 2" lift
    Some August wandering in the northern half of the park. Was a fun moment to be out of the truck and have two fighter jets take a hot lap through a nearby canyon.

    IMG_1610.jpg IMG_1617.jpg IMG_1675.jpg
     
  18. Sep 9, 2020 at 1:02 PM
    #3978
    sawbladeduller

    sawbladeduller semi-realist

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Member:
    #139583
    Messages:
    1,140
    Gender:
    Male
    North Cal
    Vehicle:
    '15 DCSB '98 2.7L
    fully zip tied
  19. Sep 9, 2020 at 1:47 PM
    #3979
    monkeyface

    monkeyface Douchebag, or just douche if we're friends

    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    Member:
    #78740
    Messages:
    3,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    '90,'97,'12,'05 Tundra 4.7,'07 T4R 4.7,'08 T4R 4.7
    What irritates me is in alpine areas after a burn pines are replanted. Anywhere in North America over 7000' elevation aspen is native.

    There's been a heroic effort to replant pines after a burn when the smart thing is plant aspen in alpine areas. Aspen spread fast on open terrain after a burn, a single aspen can produce about 100 clones underground in a year via the suckering they do from the roots of the original tree.

    And aspen doesn't burn. Cut a live aspen branch, throw it into a firepit and it will douse the fire. Cut a live pine branch, throw it into a firepit and it will escalate the fire.
     
  20. Sep 9, 2020 at 1:57 PM
    #3980
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,102
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    Never mind that pines look like shit where aspen should be.
     

Products Discussed in

To Top