3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

I wouldn't be too concerned about startup voltage fluctuation with LED, especially with an OEM unit. LEDs have a very large voltage tolerance.

The natural color for HID is 4300k, so yeah shifting away from that color temperature will cost in output performance.

LED emitters are a different animal and more commonly at higher color temps. Nearly all the automotive grade LEDs are 6000k. I'm not an LED emitter design expert, but if you look at an emitter it is covered in a yellow phosphorus coating to reduce the LED blue light output and lower the color temperature. The more the blue light output is reduced by the phosphorus coating for a given emitter, the lower the output will be, meaning for a given emitter higher color temps will perform better. There is a lot more to it, but that is the basic idea.

Did you swap to LED license plate lights? I don't think that is an issue with the OEM ones.

 

I did, but also since swapped back. It's definitely a significantly _worse_ problem with the brighter and whiter LED license plate lights than with stock halogen (license plate lights are the one light where I'm perfectly happy with the worst possible performance) but it's still noticeable once you've noticed it with the stock halogens. You want the reverse lights to be bright and illuminate the path behind you, you don't want the license plate lights dumping light at the camera directly. I think if I acquire a MESO total tail (waiting on his v2 of v2 to see what it looks like) I might attempt this by slicing up his harness and doing a relay to conditionally disconnect power to the license plate lights when reverse lights are active. I suppose this might qualify as ever so slightly illegal but it seems near impossible you'd ever get caught for it and it doesn't feel the least bit unsafe.

 

Yeah, common complaint with LED license plate lights. I'd agree on wanting low performing license plate lights. Wouldn't be hard to make that wiring adjustment with a T-tap on the reverse line and a negative trigger relay on the license plate circuit. But I'd personally just leave it stock.

 

I've got LED license plate lights and the Meso Stage 1. I didn't really have an issue with the camera visibility prior, but the addition of the VLED switchback LEDs with the stage 1 kit definitely brighten up the view.

 

I wonder why blue is chosen? Blue was the most difficult (therefore expensive) once upon a time. I would think it was easier to use a yellow LED and add a blue filter

 

LEDs are naturally much higher in color temperature, around the 6000k range. The closer to cool/blue, the higher the LED output. LEDs are by default blue. Blue wasn't chosen, it was what we were given. Like how Halogens are naturally warm, and HIDs are pure white, LEDs are cool.

That is why whenever you look at the diode of an LED, it appears yellow, that is the yellow phosphor to bring it towards a warmer color temperature.

So your idea of a yellow LED with a blue filter would then be a Blue LED with a heavy yellow filter to become a Yellow LED, then a blue filter to brIng it back to blue. Which would lower its output by 2 fold.

Also the warmer, the more yellow an LED is, the more expensive the LED will be.

 

Blue was the most difficult? For LED? LED light is naturally blue, the output has to be altered to make other colors. I'm not an expert on that process, but here is some copy/paste info from wikipedia on how LEDs make white light, when they are blue. Automotive LEDs do not use the primary color method, they use the phosphor method.

Copy/Paste:

White
There are two primary ways of producing white light-emitting diodes. One is to use individual LEDs that emit three primary colors—red, green and blue—and then mix all the colors to form white light. The other is to use a phosphor material to convert monochromatic light from a blue or UV LED to broad-spectrum white light, similar to a fluorescent lamp. The yellow phosphor is cerium-doped YAG crystals suspended in the package or coated on the LED. This YAG phosphor causes white LEDs to look yellow when off, and the space between the crystals allow some blue light to pass through. Alternatively, white LEDs may use other phosphors like manganese(IV)-doped potassium fluorosilicate (PFS) or other engineered phosphors. PFS assists in red light generation, and is used in conjunction with conventional Ce:YAG phosphor. In LEDs with PFS phosphor, some blue light passes through the phosphors, the Ce:YAG phosphor converts blue light to green and red light, and the PFS phosphor converts blue light to red light. The color temperature of the LED can be controlled by changing the concentration of the phosphors.[96][97][98]

The 'whiteness' of the light produced is engineered to suit the human eye. Because of metamerism, it is possible to have quite different spectra that appear white. However, the appearance of objects illuminated by that light may vary as the spectrum varies. This is the issue of color rendition, quite separate from color temperature. An orange or cyan object could appear with the wrong color and much darker as the LED or phosphor does not emit the wavelength it reflects. The best color rendition LEDs use a mix of phosphors, resulting in less efficiency but better color rendering.

Phosphor-based LEDs


Spectrum of a white LED showing blue light directly emitted by the GaN-based LED (peak at about 465 nm) and the more broadband Stokes-shifted light emitted by the Ce3+:YAG phosphor, which emits at roughly 500–700 nm

This method involves coating LEDs of one color (mostly blue LEDs made of InGaN) with phosphors of different colors to form white light; the resultant LEDs are called phosphor-based or phosphor-converted white LEDs (pcLEDs).[103] A fraction of the blue light undergoes the Stokes shift, which transforms it from shorter wavelengths to longer. Depending on the original LED's color, various color phosphors are used. Using several phosphor layers of distinct colors broadens the emitted spectrum, effectively raising the color rendering index (CRI).[104]

Phosphor-based LEDs have efficiency losses due to heat loss from the Stokes shift and also other phosphor-related issues. Their luminous efficacies compared to normal LEDs depend on the spectral distribution of the resultant light output and the original wavelength of the LED itself. For example, the luminous efficacy of a typical YAG yellow phosphor based white LED ranges from 3 to 5 times the luminous efficacy of the original blue LED because of the human eye's greater sensitivity to yellow than to blue (as modeled in the luminosity function). Due to the simplicity of manufacturing, the phosphor method is still the most popular method for making high-intensity white LEDs. The design and production of a light source or light fixture using a monochrome emitter with phosphor conversion is simpler and cheaper than a complex RGB system, and the majority of high-intensity white LEDs presently on the market are manufactured using phosphor light conversion.

Among the challenges being faced to improve the efficiency of LED-based white light sources is the development of more efficient phosphors. As of 2010, the most efficient yellow phosphor is still the YAG phosphor, with less than 10% Stokes shift loss. Losses attributable to internal optical losses due to re-absorption in the LED chip and in the LED packaging itself account typically for another 10% to 30% of efficiency loss. Currently, in the area of phosphor LED development, much effort is being spent on optimizing these devices to higher light output and higher operation temperatures. For instance, the efficiency can be raised by adapting better package design or by using a more suitable type of phosphor. Conformal coating process is frequently used to address the issue of varying phosphor thickness.

Some phosphor-based white LEDs encapsulate InGaN blue LEDs inside phosphor-coated epoxy. Alternatively, the LED might be paired with a remote phosphor, a preformed polycarbonate piece coated with the phosphor material. Remote phosphors provide more diffuse light, which is desirable for many applications. Remote phosphor designs are also more tolerant of variations in the LED emissions spectrum. A common yellow phosphor material is cerium-doped yttrium aluminium garnet (Ce3+:YAG).

White LEDs can also be made by coating near-ultraviolet (NUV) LEDs with a mixture of high-efficiency europium-based phosphors that emit red and blue, plus copper and aluminium-doped zinc sulfide (ZnS:Cu, Al) that emits green. This is a method analogous to the way fluorescent lamps work. This method is less efficient than blue LEDs with YAG:Ce phosphor, as the Stokes shift is larger, so more energy is converted to heat, but yields light with better spectral characteristics, which render color better. Due to the higher radiative output of the ultraviolet LEDs than of the blue ones, both methods offer comparable brightness. A concern is that UV light may leak from a malfunctioning light source and cause harm to human eyes or skin.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the first LEDs didn't produce visible light (probably infrared). Then came along red, yellow, other colors and lastly blue. And at first, blue wasn't cheap. That's why everyone's electronics started coming with annoying blue LEDs about 20 years ago, because they made the electronics "look high-end"

This article seems to back that up:
http://www.historyoflighting.net/light-bulb-history/history-of-led/

 

Yes the first LED were infrared, commonly found in remote control for your TV/DVD player/etc.
LEDs can be produce to naturally emit other colors, like those in OLEDs. They can be made from IR to UV.

Blue however has the highest energy density.
It wasn't because it just looks high end, but because that it was also the most useful. Same reason a lot laser projectors use Blue lasers as a source, because it is the most efficient, producing the desired color at a desire intensity.

High output "White" LEDs are more towards blue, since the source is, well blue.

Also, since they are now the most produced, blue leds are quite cost effective. Saving pennies, while looking "high-end", then selling for profit! what more can a car manufacturer want.

 

I agree blue light is useful for many applications. But for status LEDs, it's beyond horrible. I had to cover my Motorola modem in black transparent tape so my neighbors didn't think I was throwing a rave party every night.

https://hackaday.com/2020/02/20/we-ruined-status-leds-heres-why-that-needs-to-change/

 

I do agree blue led is way overused, and in applications to up the perceived value of the product. Had a Linksys Router and modem that made one corner in the room glow blue, which really through off my sleep. It is also the same reason why your dash instruments emit blue light, or street lights with "cool white", to keep you awake.


But those are for different applications...
We are talking about headlights, which need high powered LEDs to put down light on the road. And no other base for LED other than a blue LED has the power to produce a "white" light efficiently and intensely.

And to go back to your original question, why they chose blue? Because for headlights or anything needing high output "White", blue is a necessary.
A true Yellow LED with a blue filter, would struggle to meet the power, efficiency and output of a Blue LED with a Yellow filter, because Blue just packs a higher energy density.

 

I have not been impressed with what I’ve seen from AlphaRex so far. But looks like they are releasing some reflector based LED headlights.

 

damn, those are even uglier than the projector nova

 

A little shady that they won't be listing them on their website. I wonder if the new version is not DOT approved, maybe that's why they're not selling them on the website for liability reasons.

 

Most likely because it is the same housing as the OEM LED Headlights or the DEPO version taken from the manufacturer in China/Taiwan.

I also found what appears to be AlphaRex's headlight manufacturer when browsing through Alibaba.

 

They look almost exactly like the OEM LED headlights, with different shades of smoke and chrome.

Am I missing something?

 

I actually suspect the design is too close to the OEM LED headlights, they look like they could be knock offs, which would land you in legal trouble with Toyota. Fortunately I have a channel for that.

 

Ahhh makes sense, I’m not too familiar with the OEM LEDs so I never noticed that. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. Gives Morimoto the ethical advantage at least now with the competition, if that means anything.

 

Just noticed TacomaBeast are the first to run these headlights. Easiest way to tell is the sidemarker. AlphaRex's knockoffs use the same side markers from the Halogen headlights, while the OEM LED have an angular look with a large reflector and light goes through the top and bottom.

@crashnburn80 do you think these will have a similar output to OEM?

 

Looking for some insight on a simple setup for driving in the rain. Coming from a Jeep Cherokee trail hawk the nighttime rain is noticeably worse to drive in. Say what you want about the ugly mug that S.U.V. sports but I’ll tell you what that ugly SOB cuts through rain like a hot knife through butter and was probably the best vehicle I have ever driven in bad storms.

After reading and looking at many different products I’m thinking about this for my 19.

Eye of megaton led’s or h11+100,120,130 and some yellow led fogs. Not sure if the mixture of light will defeat the purpose but I’m really looking to improve visibility of the road itself as it rains like a mofo and gets hard to see the lines late at night.

Not sure what type of headlights I’ll use for daytime driving, I’ll need to think about that part more. J/k, just trying to lighten it up a bit.

appreciate the feedback in advance.