Toyota Needs to Step Up!

I see the OP's point, the Pro should actually be an upgrade...

 

Yes, you have to be right about that. Their position is obviously dominant, but the gap will likely narrow even more before the next Tacoma generation is revealed.

Toyota has such strong positions across so many lineups — RAV4, Camry/Corolla, Tacoma, Prius — that they’re in no immediate danger of losing major market share. But, there is immense pressure on them to maintain their fair share of things, and all of that makes them painfully careful with the directions they take. It’s for that reason and others that I know you’re right. They’re watching everyone and everything.

You know, it’s going to be really interesting to see how it all goes. We’ll know a lot more about Toyota’s direction and risk taking when they finally reveal the details on the next generation Tundra. Are they going with coils instead of leaf springs, are they going full-bore hybrid from the start, its rated capacities? How many engine options, if any, and the same for transmissions.

I know it won’t be the same stuff with the next gen Tacoma, but the degree of change they’re willing to commit to with the Tundra may signal, a little, how willing to change they are with the Tacoma.

 

Good thoughts and interesting discussion. I am not sure what they do with the Tundra will tell us much, though. The reason is the Tundra is a niche vehicle for them whereas the Tacoma is the market leader. I personally think they offer the Tundra for the folks who love Toyota and find the Tacoma just a bit too small for their needs. Not sure it is going toe to toe with the F150 and winning -- at least if you look at the sales numbers.

Did you see this? I think in the Truck space Ford has them concerned and in the rest of the space the Koreans (Hyundai / Kia) have them scared:

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a689949/new-toyota-land-cruiser-tundra-details/

 

Just read your link — that’s exciting news for the Land Cruiser if that pans out. I’m perhaps most excited to see what they do there, haha.

You’re probably right about the Tundra, actually. I doubt Toyota has the incentive to push its progress against Ford and the others more than they have been. And it’s maybe a stretch to think that it’s debut next year will signal much regarding the next Tacoma. But I liked the discussion we’re all having and I started musing about things, haha.

 

Honestly, if I were a Toyota executive I would put together a team and go create an FJ killer to line up against the Bronco. Not the FJ they released awhile ago but a ground up build. Can you imagine the slug fest between Jeep. Bronco and the FJ?

 

I would absolutely love to see that. Perhaps it’s too much to hope for that the next Land Cruiser could play in area? If they’re going to do a more stripped-down, less luxurious, Land Cruiser then maybe.

 

Isn't the new frontier coming out in a couple of months?

 

Plucky, check this out. The race is on:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/36393/kia-is-apparently-considering-a-toyota-land-cruiser-rival

 

That's a good idea, except you would get fired for losing money. The Bronco that will sell the most is that unibody version and the other built for offroad will sell in minimal quantities. Don't forget these guys first priority is to the shareholders. Every single decision is built on making money. You gotta remember pretty much less than 1% of people take their trucks offroad. However, they like the image that their vehicle projects to others. Tough. Macho. Toyota nor anyone else runs their company based on feelings.

 

I doubt it will have any impact on the tacoma

 

It won't be "exclusively electric" but my dealership told me something very similar to what @Unab8dLy4m heard. I was told by 2024 every Toyota vehicle will have a non-gasoline version. Toyota can't just stop making gas engines overnight but they have chosen battery as the future.

I also can't help but laugh at how Tacoma owners nitpick these small details while the guys over on Tundras.com have been waiting a decade for new sheet metal. I saw posts of guys willing to trade in their 2018 tundra because they were freaking out the 2020 has a push button start haha.

 

Wait a minute, I was told this is toxic masculinity and very bad.

 

It’s only bad if you aren’t aware that it’s cosplay.

 

Ha! Very unlikely that I would get fired at all. I highly doubt that I would lose money with a real FJ. The bar for success is pretty low in that regard. For example, Toyota only sells about 119,000 Tundras a year -- which is not a massive amount (under 5% market share). I am reasonably confident that a re-designed FJ could sell equal to or more than that. By contrast, Jeep sold 228K vehicles in 2010 and Ford has reported they expect to sell 200K Broncos in 2021 (of course, that was pre-Covid). But the numbers are definitely there. They sell 3,000 Land Cruisers in the US a year and are still able to do so profitably.

I am not sure wha the rest of your comments mean, however. Never said the FJ would lose money, never said Toyota wasn't focused on making money and never said Toyota runs its company based on feelings. The point is they could do it successfully so none of those comments apply. Plus the fact that people never take their trucks off road doesn't matter -- how many of those Jeeps go off road? The point is they still sell.

But anyway ... it is a fun discussion ... probably best for me to end it here and get back to focusing on the Tacoma ...

 

Nissan has not set a date yet other than the all new Frontier will be out in the 2021 model year. The 2020 Frontier has the new engine and transmission in a second gen body. 3.8 V6, 9 speed auto.

 

Jesus I keep clicking on this thread and I’ve started to type so many times and then erased it. I kept thinking why am I going to engage with folks on the Internet with this subject. It’s like a raging dumpster fire. I feel like I’m about to comment on oil or tires on the ADV rider forum. Anyway here we go...

We all own a Tacoma because let’s face it, it is the best midsize truck, and that’s proven with consumer dollars. Just look at the numbers on the road, especially here where I live. No joke there are probably 7-8 on my block alone. I considered a Ranger and briefly thought a diesel Colorado would be cool. I honestly believe MSRP to MSRP you get great bang for the buck with the Ranger. I’m not going to get into options, packages, blah blah blah. If you’re just a guy or gal looking for a midsized truck that suits your needs and you’re not worried about aftermarket upgrades, resale in 10+ years and so on, then why not consider other trucks in this category? At the end of the day I got a Taco because it is sorta basic (which I like), the resale is just stupid high which is why I didn’t even buy used at this point, and for me, having the ability to get what ever random aftermarket upgrade part I want is a huge plus. Coming from a highly modified XJ I knew two things were true, my Tacoma will never wheel like my Jeep and my Tacoma will always be a huge improvement in comfort no matter what it lacks by 2019 standards.

The other thing I'll add, and it’ll piss people off, but this truck isn’t worth 39k in my opinion, sorry but it’s not. Why do I say that? Well when I bought this truck last year I got them down to 33,850...I did my homework and just on this forum alone plenty of folks paid 8-12 percent below MSRP for their Tacos. I get it, not everyone negotiated or gets the deal they want so plenty of people will say they only could get one at MSRP. In my personal opinion, I just wouldn’t pay sticker for a Taco, if I had to then I’d be looking at other options like a Ranger or F150 (yeah I know, F150 is completely wrong category). It’s been beat to death before, no way would I ever buy a TRD Pro either. If someone wants to buy a TRD Pro and spend that kind of money on it then great. I buy all kinds of dumb shit, you should see all my camping gear, I just personally would never buy a TRD Pro. I will say if my buddy rolled up in one hell yeah I’ll check it out, they’re just not 45k+ cool in my book. I’d personally just buy what I have and put my own money and parts on a TRD OR. Again, just my opinion and you’re entitled to yours. At the end of the day I’ll be clear on one thing, I have zero buyers remorse and unless I need to change vehicles because my family grows, then I plan on sticking with my Taco for a long long time. I do really enjoy it and it wheels great for a truck!

Let’s assume I like just about everything with my truck, so I’m just going to mention what I don’t like after 25k miles of seat time. I think it’s crazy cheap of them not to have a power locking tailgate...I mean really? No power seats are mildly annoying just because you can’t fine tune where you want it. The tilt/telescoping steering wheel is a complete joke. The lumbar is pointless and the seat cushion is literally like 3-4 inches to short. You get absolutely zero support behind your knees. Also, the back seat is actually pretty decent all things considered but they completely screw the passengers by having the rear bottom of the front seats so low you can barely get your toes under the front seat. You have to ride with your legs cramped just because they skimped out on 3/4 of an inch. No I don’t have the JBL and I bet everyone that has one will say it’s the cats meow but frankly entune is an absolute failure and the sound quality is a joke for something they ask 39k for.

I’m sure some of you will read this and think I don’t like the truck but I’m sure the tone of voice in my head is different than how this reads. I love my truck, it suits my needs so perfectly and most of my complaints could be remedied with aftermarket solutions (one plus of owning the truck is the available upgrades). And to be frank almost non of them bother me enough to actually waste time or money addressing them.

Who thinks I’m crazy?

 

I see 7-10 3rd gen tacos every time i go out and about

 

No, I don't think you are crazy at all. But I will say this particular forum hasn't been a dumpster fire at all. I think that for the most part the conversation has been pretty fun and reasonably enjoyable for most of us.

I agree with you that the Tacoma is the best mid-size truck. I think that is pretty indisputable at this point. I live in NY, which is not really a truck place (closer to NYC) but I see a ton of Tacomas even here. Funny thing, though, I rarely see a Ranger on the road. Small sample, I get that, but I think I have only seen five or so this year.

I also agree with you that while the truck is great (I really like my 2020 TRD OR) it definitely did not seem worth what I paid for it. But that is vehicles overall. I think I paid closer to $33K (pre-Covid) but the new world is one where truck pricing are escalating like mad. $40K is the new $30K.

But I think your point in all of this is that while we love our Tacomas, for the most part, there are things that Toyota does that drives us nuts. I would agree -- but I suppose that is part of their charm. The power locking tailgate is one of those things. We put up with it because we love the truck but I can see where you are coming from -- it should be included. I am just lucky that I got the 2020 so I get a power seat -- at least on the driver's side. . The sound quality is not great, either. I agree with you but to be perfectly honest I don't care about that that much since I have a really great stereo at home and don't really think of my driving experience as a high fidelity sound opportunity. But I get your point.

So from what I am gathering ... you are the perfect Toyota customer. You love your truck you just would like to see Toyota make incremental improvements along the way. Which is kind of what they are doing -- just on a timeline that is slower than a lot of folks would like to see.

 

Supposedly. It won't do much unless they fixed the number one problem (frontier is butt ugly).

 

☝This