HP Tuners for 2005-2015

I have been tinkering back n forth on all sorts of engine tunes since this all started, justdsm did the majority of the work then I'd do a spin off on what I thought would work better etc... I think I'm on the 12 or 13th revision of engine tunes as far as spark n torque tables... I can't leave well nuff alone

 

@JustDSM

Any reason why the vvti base table as far as angles are in 5deg steps when the table will allow for smaller increments? (To allow for a smoother table)

 

That exclusively is based upon your airflow.

Example: if you are choking the engine down and running a 2.4 without water meth you are going to be terribly outside of the superchargers airflow range and basically just ramming excessively hot air down the cylinders. This will result in your PCM pulling timing and while you will see a lot of boost it won't mean anything because you will find that you aren't moving quickly.

I found it's best to stay within a 6.5 - 7.5 psi range on these blowers, so the big key here is to open her up a ton! Let her breathe! If you do that you will find that boost drops which will allow you to run a smaller pulley subsequently to compensate for those losses.

(All of this changes once you introduce water meth injection into the mix by the way)

 

Great question!

*Not being a smart ass here* - Screenshots and an explanation to follow..

Answer me this.

What are you effectively doing by using a smaller step/increment?

 

Probably not better unless you’re buying out of a 55gal drum

 

Just to fill in some holes so things aren't as stepped.

Stepped would make sense if the vvti mechanism simply can't handle a continuous ramp and needs to be at a spot for a bit of time to make sure things are proper.

 

Lets take a peek at a log from your truck. (maf16-towork02)

Here's birds eye view of the system operation. The VVTi mapping is RPM/Load based (with some TPS input..)


Depending on the lens in which you use to view or analyze your data through, you could draw a few conclusions.. One of those might be "those cam angles are all over the place". Perhaps leading you to want to smooth them out?

And its possible that some degree of smoothing might be useful or helpful even. But I think it's important to still keep a broad view here. Look at the RPM. Look at the Air Load values. What I see here is a engine being operated in a dynamic environment with varied RPM, Load AND variation in the requested torque of the engine.

In other words, this is a capture of a highly dynamic (yes, even for us low level N/A guys) environment where we have the mechanical limits of the engine being pitted against variable conditions in which the vehicle is operating in, and the highly variable driver input and his/her requested torque. This highly variable and dynamic environment is one of the reasons that lead to VVTi's creation. Static cams are optimized for a specific set of operating conditions. The VVTi system and any other continuously variable cam timing system allows the torque output of the engine to be broadened across its operating range. Most of this you and the others here are probably well aware of, so forgive the D- history lesson on the history and operation of these systems

But the point I wanted to drive home was that just because you see variability, does not not necessarily mean you have smoothing that needs to be done. So we can see what the system in operation is requesting of the intake cam phaser, lets take a look at the actual map that made the above possible.

As can be seen, the map used to create those jagged lines above is actually quite uniform and smooth.



OK Justin.. Get to the point!!!

The question.. "why not use smaller increments".

It's not that you can't. The biggest reason is, a change of 0.3deg of intake cam advance is going to have virtually no measureable effect on torque output. It's probably also worth noting that the cam angles we're requesting and subsequently logging are the DESIRED cam angles. These things do have error, which is why we have the proportional and integral feedback corrections. We don't currently have the ability to log the actual cam angle versus the desired angle, so to demonstrate I'll use a log from my Mustang (which obviously has much more support).



Aside from having dual variable cams, you can see that the designated cam angles aren't always exactly what you get. There is always some error in the system and just one of those reasons you get some "run to run" variance.

Ok Justin.....

In short.. You can smooth the map if you wish. If you're doing it for more torque, you better find a good load bearing dyno and spend a good bit of time and money doing some steady state tuning. You'd really be splitting hairs at that point or are competing at the highest level to warrant that time/expenditure.

My question earlier? All you're really changing by smoothing the map is changing the RATE of change in the cam timing. Toyota mapped the VVTi pretty well. The basic structure of the map is sound and while there's some to be had with adjustment, their just isn't much reason to map the VVTi system down to 1/3 of a degree. When driving (aside from stead state freeway cruising) the load on the engine varies and the requested torque changes are sizeable in terms of total available torque. Even from a casual take off and acceleration, we're using a sizeable chunk of the available torque of the engine. To best ensure the requested torque is met, the engine needs to make "gross" changes to the cam timing to keep up with the demand. It's also important to remember the system interpolates values between cells so the cam is quite fluid in its movement already.

Hopefully that helps some.. And I didn't even touch on airlfow...

 

Knowledge DROP there. As always Justin I appreciate the tons of information!

In short im not going for any drastic changes nor down to .3 deg increments, what i am aiming for is say in the table above the 40% load 1200,1600,2000 rpm cells. rather than 35/35/40 degres something like 35/37.5/40

Will i be able to feel the changes nope, will i be able to sleep at night with a "smoothed" map, yes haha (i think the smallest step would be a 2.5* step just to fill a couple of the holes)


While on the subject of vvti, I assume there is some correlation to MPG's that could be had within that table. Excuse my caveman like thought process, Higher cam angle means more air in the motor, meaning more fuel, meaning less mpg. Could one reduce cam timing in a driving zone (say crusing at 2000rpms 40-50% load) and see an mpg increase? Or would this be counter productive as you would be making less power requiring more throttle input thus more load and more fuel?

 

If anyone is interested, I'm selling my tuned ECM over on the Buy/Sell/Trade area: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/fs-tuned-tacoma-ecm.694880/

 

I tried searching this thread, but it's so bloated by now I didn't get anywhere...

Does anyone know the process for moving from the N/A map that came on 4.0 trucks up to a TRD map? Even without adding a supercharger I heard that mapping is more aggressive in the N/A regions, not to mention larger load tables. I have HPT and a TRD-OR manual truck.

Is there a way to do this without paying a dealership out the nose for a flash?

Cheers,

 

several ways, @JustDSM can flash your ECU with the SC calibration or typically a dealer can for one hour of labor.

 

If you use the TRD S/C cal, you’re going to lose ACIS function and a boat load of torque in the low end and mid-range.

For what it may be worth, there is nothing to be gained using a TRD S/C calibration on a N/A truck. The increased resolution is not going to do anything on a N/A setup that is still running stock internals (RPM limited). The granularity of the ignition mapping control is more a limitation than the map size.

That’s just my 2¢ from doing >160 of these trucks.

 

Oh wow, I'm surprised that you lose ACIS and torque with an updated cal. What about the TRD cal negatively impacts torque in the midrange? I don't understand where it would benefit them to decrease it. It sounds like you're the expert though, so I'll default to your experience.

Is ACIS totally calibrated out in the TRD version, or is it just turned "off"? I'd be surprised if they actually removed the table.

 

Pretty sure the acis actuator flap thing is in the stock intake so it can’t be used since it’s physically deleted

 

That's correct that the ACIS is part of the stock intake manifold. However, because it's the same ECU, most manufacturers just turn on or turn off options depending on how the engine is equipped as opposed to deleting the table from the overall ECU code.

It would make sense for the ACIS to be shut off in the cal, but that's changeable in HP Tuners.

For instance, GM V8s from the cylinder deactivation era that don't have the collapsible lifters for cylinder deactivation still have the tables in the ECU. There's just a master switch toggled to "off".

 

The ACIS table is removed from the TRD cal. There was already a ticket placed with HPtuners to see if we could get the table back. No dice!

 

Really?! Shucks! That's a bummer.

 

Since we're on the topic of VVTi, have you left these maps alone on the turbo engine tunes, or did you alter them from up above.

 

It's a bit different from above, but similar in shape/structure. I'll send you a PM.

 

Deal.