Toyota Needs to Step Up!

Full size is where the Tundra is definitely loosing big time. To me they are ugly. Not to mention they don't really have a good market with any sort of "work truck" version. Like the F150 for instance. But the one thing toyota has that the others don't is they aren't solely reliant on those truck sales to make up their total sales. Take Ford for instance 2.3 million total sales take the ~900k Fseries truck sales away they are screwed. Yota 2.3 million in total sales take the 250k tacoma and 115k in tundra sales. Still smoking good sales numbers. You can do that for all the domestics. They are so reliant on those truck sales and I contend still majority are government and large commercial sales contracts to make majority of their sales. Without those they'd sink in a hearbeat they aren't diversified and don't hold much market share in the other vehicle markets to stay afloat. Ford is by far the worse. Chrysler if you kill the ram you just took almost 1/3 of their sales.

 

I won't even consider the Ranger until after a major redesign. I don't like how they half-assed bringing it to the US and called it "all new."

 

Incorrect. My background is actually manufacturing engineering..Mostly aerospace. If you ever flew in an UH-60 (Black Hawk) or CH-53E (Super Stallion), or went bounding across the countryside in an Abrams M1 main battle tank, or flew across the country in a commercial jet, my fingerprints were all over it. I've helped design manufacturing lines for Textron Lycoming, Sikorsky Aircraft, Allied Signal Aerospace, (now Honeywell), Pratt & Whitney and more.

Thing is, I designed manufacturing processes for a living. I'm currently teaching mathematics and computer science so yeah, I have an idea of what I'm talking about.


I will leave you with this: "Scaling" is not the reason (as you claim) Toyota hasn't embraced custom factory ordering, which is something all domestic manufacturers can do (without issue) as could Toyota if they choose. Why they don't is what I find somewhat puzzling. Maybe it is Toyota's instance of maintaining regional cartels which seem a bit shady to me....Regardless, I have no real info on why they do what they do but I know it has zero to do with "scale" ;-)

 

That is definitely true. Toyota is never cutting edge like the domestics are. But they make up for it in reliability.

 

Yeah man, I hear you. Like I said, we are just going to disagree in this one.

 

You have no real info with their dealer orders either I just told you they do the same as what the Big 3 do. I also have experience in the field which you do not. You have experience as an engineer and a teacher both in nothing related to the automotive field and how things work. So again your lack of actual understanding of THIS field and very poor of combining and inflating statistics shows me how good of a math teacher you are. I feel sorry for your students that their math teacher lacks the simple understanding of how those work. Regional cartels that's even more laughable you ever look into the Big 3 dealer networks . Toyota is actually much more diversified in who they have and the # of dealerships said person or company owns. But I forgot you are an engineer with ZERO experience in the automotive industry yet still claim to know it all.

OK smart guy if Toyota sucks so bad at scaling then why do all the dealers place their orders just like the domestics and then they still slaughter all but GM in sales with 2.5x less brands and at least 10x less models to choose from. IF they are so bad at scale why if you take away the Fseries pickup ford aint got shit for sales. Why if you take away the ram same thing for FCA???????

You still haven't proven your original assertion about Jimmy walking into Joes Chevy and ordering a vehicle nor can you prove that they do the # of custom order to which you illude to.

If you'd like I can get you in touch with the owner of my local Toyota dealer and he can explain how he places an order just like every other vehicle manufacturer ( he owns multiple) and how if someone wants to walk into his dealership how that is handled for a custom order. Just like what I've been saying since the get go they will go through everything they can to find it before placing an order with the manufacturer just like any other brand dealer out there. NOW that is from real world experience in the field not in some other field projecting acting like you know how it works.

I'll leave you with this just because you teach mathmatics, are an aero space engineer doesn't make you an expert in a field in which you haven't stepped foot in. Oh and arguments from authority especially when you have no intimate knowledge of a subject is also poor choice.

 

I ordered a Toyota in 2015 and waited 3 months for it to arrive. It was a new 2016 model and not even in the showroom yet. If Toyota can't find the specific configuration somewhere in the country you can order it. It just could take a while depending where it was built. Mine came from Japan

 

Don't tell the aerospace engineer he'll tell you that isn't how yota works

That's been my point is they would rather not no matter the manufacturer but if all other avenues are exhausted then they'll place the order.

 

I can't imagine a salesman at a dealer saying "We don't see your configuration available in the country and it is a configuration we can produce but thats not what we do, sorry". The leg work for the salesman is involved for a factory order but they can do it and they still get their commision.

 

Anybody know how many of these 3rd Gen sales are owners of previous gen, previous gen trade-ins?

I'm aware, I'm heavily invested in hydrogen across the globe. They've partnered with the Chinese heavily in the production of their hydrogen vehicles. I see hydrogen as an industrial solution, not retail auto sales in my lifetime- I could only wish.

 

And they will all will do this. But they aren't like walking into a McLaren dealer where you sit down with the sales guy on a computer and completely spec out every little detail.

This is the typical scenario for which a sale happens when they have nothing on the lot no matter the dealer for no matter the manufacturer worse case scenario

They ask you well what options and colors etc are you looking for you go through the books and packages pick them all out. They hop on the dealer network and search. They find several vehicles that are pretty much everything you want except maybe a different entertainment package or color or interior color maybe a little higher end package. If one of them works they'll get it coming typically if they find something that may be an option higher they'll slash pricing some to meet what you wanted. Then if all that fails they will put in a factory order. BUT.......at that point you may give up incentives, price negotiation, give deposits with no return or obligations to buy. SO dealers especially do not like to make orders. Back in the 90s and before it was more abundant than it is now and dealers ended up getting stuck with pretty undesirable vehicles. Manufacturers do not like snuck in orders like this because running at the just in time manufacturing process means that they have to deliver within a certain time frame and potentially having everything there and ready can be slower and it takes timing.

Typically dealers are placing their orders for vehicles 6-8 mo in advance.

Smaller scale more specialized vehicles like the GT500, ZR1, etc dealers and manufacturers are much more welcoming to those custom orders due to the fact there are no incentives and they are geared towards that type of clientele.

 

Though it's not a popular train of thought but i think HFCV are what we need and battery EV is the interim. Infrastructure is an issue I'm sure, but the Mirai is a great example of whats to come.

 

I thought your point was:

This is why you really can't order the specific Tacoma that you want "made to order." That would slow down the system. And in a scaled model you don't slow down the system!

Which suggests that the "reason" Toyota doesn't want a "made to order" Taco is because it would slow down the "system" and in a "scaled model " you dare not "slow down the system!"

Honestly, I have no idea what any of that means, but I thought I would reply anyway and I did.

My retort was that a properly designed manufacturing line could easily build millions of more trucks and NOT slow down "the system". As evidence I noted that 2.2 million trucks were manufactured (the majority, if not all custom ordered) so the "system" apparently can handle the volume. I agree that Toyota doesn't like custom orders, but it has nothing to do with 'slowing down the system'. Their system is already slow...try ordering a custom Taco ;-)

What Toyota's reasons are I have no idea.

 

Had no idea Toyota even made an electric vehicle...Thought every vehicle Toyota sells here has a gasoline engine...

I've heard of the Bolt, Tesla obviously, Nissan Leaf....BMW i3....

What is Toyota's electric vehicle model?

 

I'm suspecting the Prius and other hybrids in their fleet.

 

You're not listening. Take the cotton balls out of your ears.

CUSTOM order definition in the automotive industry Joey customer walking into a dealership and placing an order for a vehicle to be manufactured.

DEALER orders placed typically 6-8 months out from time of delivery. NOT considered custom orders in this field. By placing orders this far in advance coupled with the just in time manufacturing process manufacturers place orders to their vendors and have a timeline and schedule on when vehicles are being produced.

LARGE SCALE AUTO manufacturers besides a few exceptions run on just in time manufacturing process do you even understand how that works.........

Your retort from the get go was flawed due to the fact you think you know how dealer orders, large scale auto manufacturing, and you claim toyota is slow. So now a dealer order that has been placed and planned much further in advance than what is considered a custom order in the automotive field has a time slot to be built. A custom order (see definition above) comes in it has a time frame for production. This hurries the ordering and supply process to get parts to the assembly plant. This also bumps other orders that were placed by dealers prior to this. How many more ways can I explain this to your dense brain.


Yet you literally admitted to working in a field and are an engineer in manufacturing processes in a field that doesn't even come close to the volume nor the process at which automobiles are produced. Your flawed statistical analysis is also indicative of not knowing how to use your great teaching ability to get a point across.

 

That is what I thought...all with gasoline engines.

Toyota doesn't have the battery manufacturing capabilities of say Tesla so that is why they have embraced Hybrids. Makes more sense on just about every level to spread their batteries between 1.5 million hybrids rather than 28,000 electric vehicles

 

Yeh Toyota's footprint worldwide with Hybrids is immense.

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-p...020, Toyota passed,was first launched in 1997.

 

Lexus has a few options

 

I was just reading an article a couple days ago, Toyota is planning on hybrids for quite a while and doesn't want to get rid of gasoline entirely. Made sense in a way, grids couldn't keep up with demand if everybody was on electricity.