Tacoma - OVTUNE - VFTUNER - Update Info and Original Development

Definitely not blaming anyone. What I’m saying is 2019 guys have gotten a working base tune since purchase. No performance tune as flash kit owner. 2016-2018 had 1.05 that worked without major flaws like the 2019 ecus had. Early 3/4 shift, throttle cutout at high rpm. If I’m wrong about 2016-2018 owners having a working performance tune then that I’m sorry for.

 

The ability to read, reading comprehension, and the ability to think critically and draw conclusions from what has been comprehended are different skills that layer together in stages. Most people lack the capacity for more than the first two.

People are probably reading "we are closed" and continuing on as if it meant nothing "cool, he's closed, no support. Got it. Hey Mat, when can I get my key?!" Lol

 

What exactly defines performance?

more horsepower? More torque?
Our base tunes do that.
Different shifting?
base tunes do that
more throttle response?
Thx option does that.

Everyone seems to have their own definition of what a performance tune is suppose to be.
I may be wrong but I don't recall saying 1.05...1.05.1 etc were specifically "performance" tunes.

Every tune we have ever released is for more performance.

Does the 2.0 update we are working on with map switching and enhanced features define "performance" ?

Yes the 2.0 base tunes are oriented towards better mpg, but that doesn't mean they lack performance from a HP/TQ perspective.

So my guess here is that the performance version people want is more throttle response and higher RPM shifting, or something.

The new update we posted on our forum isn't even *specifically* performance. Adding map channels doesn't create more performance, just more options.



So what we will release is what we always do. A tune that provides more hp, more torque, more response, and with vF Tuner, a lot of customizability.


and please do not read this the wrong way. I am not saying we don't want to make some "performance' variant. We have to release tunes that work for everyone. There is so much cool stuff that *can* but will it be well received by the majority? Nope. Because majority of the tacoma drivers with our tune want what our base tune provides. We have to take into account everyone's opinion when developing our files. There is a very vocal minority here, that *think* they talk for all tacoma owners, but in reality they don't.

The vast majority of tacoma owners don't even want their truck to stay above 2000 RPM *ever*


This is partially why vF tuner is the GO TO tool for folks who want that next level of customization we simply cannot provide.

 

I don’t take anything you say wrong. Always enjoy reading what you have to say even if there are times I don’t agree with a comment.

Maybe there is some misconception that I’m guilty of and possibly others. I was always under the impression you offered a base tune, more mpg oriented, and a performance tune, more hp/torque oriented. And I’m not speaking of vftuner but as a flash kit owner as I remember having the option for 2.0 base and 2.0 performance and, if memory serves me correctly, 1.05? I could easily be wrong there as I could never use that file at all so didn’t bother.

I will also state that I have been happily running the 2.0 version that was released most recently for quite some time until 04b33 was released and I found out and recently updated my truck. Since updating the ecu, I’ve driven over 1500 miles and used 87 octane fuel since I didn’t see a reason to run premium on a stock tune. I can say now after doing all of my routine driving that there is next to zero noticeable difference in feel of the truck in your 2.0 tune vs the stock 04b33. Not daily driving, off road driving, or towing as I am literally sitting in my truck after delivering a tractor to someone on a 3 hour round trip.

Now.... 2.0 19800 or 19700 or whatever the numbers were, now that was noticeable difference in feel and power of the truck. My wife never drives my truck and was sitting in front passenger seat and said she felt it throw her back in her seat and now it doesn’t. I had surgery a week ago and she’s been driving me up until yesterday and I asked her if it felt different or shifted better/worse and she said she couldn’t tell any difference either.

Anyway, I go by what I feel, not what a graph or chart says. Truck drove flawless on base 2.0 tune but had no more power feel then with 93 octane as it does now on stock 04b33 with 87 octane.

Also, I’ve read prior where the truck shifted under full throttle at a higher rpm. That never happened on 2.0 base on 93 and doesn’t on 04b33 stock tune on 87. Truck shifts exactly at 6k then and now.

I don’t know what all you go through with these tunes and how you achieve better performance out of them other than via a computer monitor and the added option of driving your personal truck which I’m still under the impression is the older model red trd pro? Trucks may be different but I really think it could help you if you could just feel the difference and that doesn’t mean anyone expects you to go out and buy a new Tacoma every year to do this. I’ve literally offered to bring you my truck before and respect that you’d never take that offer but I truly believe you’d question the tune value yourself if you could literally just drive and feel my 2019 or anyone’s for that matter.

Long reply as usual, hope ya get a chance to read and maybe we could all better understand each other and your product. Thanks

 

Yes. 1.05b had Base and Perf.

2.0 Base is out. 2.0 Perf is coming, along with other goodies.


04B14 Stock is of the same grade of tune as 04B33. Everyone that I ask says that they feel there is some OVT hiding in there. It certainly felt great to me, but it felt like older OVT tuning (1.05b) and was missing the bottom end torque. Base or SFOB (MT perf tune) was still needed and wanted over top.

IMHO, it took the entire 3rd Gen development of failure and 5yrs of production to get a semi-workable tune that seems to incorporate some of OVT's work to finally get there.


The base code in the latest TSB tunes (04B33, 04B81, 04B91?, and the 2021s) are excellent. I think you'll be floored once the Final options are dropped.

 

Also, possibly for people that have owned your flash kit, we were drawn in by your remarks and comments. Comment after comment about improvements in horsepower and torque and fuel mileage with a potential for a twin turbo kit to come.... saw pics of you claiming we’re working on making the highest hp Tacoma yet, stay tuned. This draws folks in and, for all us consumers knew at the time you posted those graphs and charts, we’re making a more powerful truck at the time without turbos so they have in their minds ‘this could be possible for my truck’ and buy in to the system. Final product doesn’t come anything near the expected outcome despite whether or not it was ever supposed to.

Imagine opening up a restaurant and advertising the best ever lasagna or steak or whatever and finally an excited consumer comes in via word of mouth and makes over an hour trip out of the way to find that your restaurant no longer makes that dish but instead sells great soup..... not what the consumer expected so disappointment sets in.

Anyway, I’m not the best at analogies just trying to express how I may have misconstrued this from the beginning as my expectations were never met from the product I thought I was buying.

 

Possibly and I’m optimistic that I will like it. However, as many others may also think, there may also be a drastic let down. I’m very optimistic the tune will have the same feel as before when he was working on more power more power but at this point I could be wrong as he’s mentioned things are steering more towards what the mass wants and if not then use vf tuner. Unfortunately, expectations were there for performance when purchasing a ore made tune. Nowhere upon purchase was there ever anything saying ‘we are changing directions now and are now going to expect you to understand proprietary software to tune your own vehicle without any training’. I’m sure training will come but at this time there is absolutely nothing but jumbled up posts in the thousands for a new inexperienced user to sort through that may or may not help them understand a single thing.

I build houses for a living. People nowadays are lazy and don’t even know how to read a tape measure and we hire them in knowing we have to take them through fundamentals first now. Vftuner is like getting hired and not knowing how to read a tape measure and then being told to go build a custom home start to finish.

Anyway, I’m truly not mad or upset about any of the progress or lack thereof.... He has very valid reasons not to release yet and I’m one that supports his decisions on that for many reasons. When it is released and falls short of performance expectations then where are we then as a consumer?

I’m just telling you that I know, as you would to, the feeling the truck had when there were base tunes and performance tunes that were separate. The truck will never go 0-60 in 2.8 seconds but when you feel a power difference you know that you’ve made a valid purchase.

 

Ahh yes. The primary difference between those two (base,performance) was Throttle response changes. Like THX.

Your opinion or stock 04B33 is why it is so difficult to make the "ideal" tune, and why we will just make options that the users can select from.
You enjoy 04B33 stock. So do some others. There are also some people who tell me it's still crap.
04B81 (2021 trucks), same tune as 04B33. Truck should drive very good right? Well 2021 trucks are the top purchasers right now, they hate stock 04B81.

I have to look at this from a logical perspective. All trucks have the same hardware. All trucks have the same software. However all trucks drive wildly different.
Me driving your truck, or 10 trucks won't tell me how 100 other trucks drive. The only logical thing I can do is continue to work on the software, rewrite toyotas stupid algosrithms, and provide options for folks to make the tune the way they want it to be.


The issue isn't that a 2019 is different than a 2021. They aren't different.

the issue is the aglorithms. The only way to make every truck drive *identically* is to override these algorithms with "learned" factors, and rewrite it to simpler code.
That is what I have been working on since ...feels like forever now.

And it will take a long time. A very long time. I don't expect to be done with it at least for another 12-16 months. (to *completely rewrite all the subroutines controlling shifting behavior, transmission learning behavior etc 100% throughout*)

Now first thing anyone is going to ask is why? why does it take so long?

2 reasons.
1. The Microcontroller that Toyota selected for this ECU.
2. The compiler they use.


1. The microcontroller is a variant of a NEC V850E2M. Unlike SH series processors that have every imaginable option, RAM documentation, stack pointer, address indexing, etc where you could probably write a nice fat patch to do whatever you wanted to in a few days... this processor has *BAREBONE* dissassembly access. like...nothing. So we are working from a barebone assembly to begin with. But that's not the primary problem. You can get through assembly with time.

2. This is the major problem. The compiler. Toyotas green hills compiler works on compiling efficiency levels that may sounds "amazing" and may work "amazing" but when you look at the assembly it's a clusterfuck nightmare pandoras box of absolute hot garbage and then some. It's *nearly impossible* to follow the stack because of so many written in variables. These variables attribute to RAM addresses that are ONLY accessible through the stack pointer that you CANNOT calculate through disassembly.
Practically every major control (fuel, ignition, transmission stuff) is ran through variables on the stack in each sub routine. They don't call or save to direct addresses. So finding out where the ECU stores a certain value for lets just say "3rd gear torque" is nearly impossible unless you're an assembly level master genius that can write patches to dump RAM in real time AS it is going through the routines themselves. I can't do this. Heck 99.99% of devs can't.

But that's only *half* the problem with the compiler. There's a second half. Instead of doing like other manufacturers and having direct address look ups for tables, the compiler writes the ADDRESS OF THE TABLE IN THE DATA AND CALLS the DATA ADDRESS + Offsets.

Which is absofreakinglutely nuts when it comes to figuring out where and how and when the ECU calls what it needs.


I promise you guys if this was a mazda, we would of had all sorts of amazing cool patched stuff a long time ago.

But with this, fixing stuff first requires fully understanding and working around that stuff. I've been looking at the dissassembly since 2017 I still don't understand all of it after 3.5+ years.

 

I can tell you that the tune is noticeable on top of the latest TSBs. Of course, with the weird inconsistencies between different 3rd Gens, there may be outliers. That said, I've only heard and experienced good things.


On the vF editing side, I have only seen a couple tricky map edits. The stuff that has worked was really easy. The 1D and 2D map edits seemed to make a big difference and we have made some of the 3D and 4D map edits cut and paste. See the threads in the Perf and Tuning forum. Most everything that has been verified, I'm trying to keep updated in the 1st Posts. I need to get off my ass and transfer them to the vftuner forum also.

 

There's such a thing as a stupid question and here's a potential one: What is the possibility of a vF Tuner V850E2M-type ECU? Can they be had and flashed to work for a reasonable price?

I'm just thinking of how happy folks seem to be with HW like Motec's ECUs on the motorcycle side.

 

Not really possible. And if I was to make a new ECU for this truck the V850E2M would be last on my list...after anaglog switches and light bulbs lol.

My idea is what I've been working on this whole time. Take all of toyotas bare code (that control reading / understanding sensor signals) and completely rewriting the calibration of how the engine is controlled.
It's very fun, challenging, time consuming.


I also forgot to mention there are road blocks everywhere in the code. Does this happen? Kill throttle. This? Kill throttle. This? Kill throttle. Calculate this? kill throttle.


If the ECU calculates too much IGNITION? KILL THROTTLE!


My best guess is toyota threw road blocks in everything so they don't have to worry about run away throttle lawsuits again. The throttle wont work if your brake lights dont work right for christ sake.

 

Thanks! Put that in the stoopid question round file.


I can somewhat see Toyota's reaction to that. Look what similar stuff did to Suzuki, Jeep, Audi, and others. Sure there were one or two instances of the mat actually over the pedal, but blue-hairs are still driving into storefronts to this day. LoL!

 

04B33 still sucks. No where near perfect. Can't wait to unlock it in vftuner to add the changes I did on 04b31.

 

wonder how much different 04b33 is than 04c20 on the ‘21s? Seems like some people aren’t noticing a huge difference in stock ‘21 and OV since Toyota is finally tweaking things in a favorable way.

 

I’m not the best at explaining myself and I apologize for that. Driving my truck, or 100 trucks as you state, was just me trying to imply that it’s all feel related. I purchased your tune primarily for shifting issues and dead throttle. After 04b33, neither are an issue. Prior to purchase as well as during ownership a desire for a subtle increase in overall performance was appealing. The added performance was definitely a deciding factor after many many days of reading here and on your website.

You driving another truck was just a way of expressing the same mentality I have is that it’s all about the feeling. You can say a new dodge trx at over 700 hp is the highest hp truck on market from the factory (I know it isn’t by the way) and then get into a truck with 600hp and the 600hp truck could ‘feel’ so much more powerful and in many cases even outperform the other.

As for all the other stuff you mentioned, you seem to enjoy it. Your knowledge of the product is superior to all of ours. So much so that it might as well be written in Chinese backwards and upside down in binary code to 98% of all your consumers.

Sadly, all consumers today know three things. They want it, they want it now, and they want it fast. You have the Tacoma market monopolized and even if someone were to step in and compete, they’re too far behind in the game to even matter at this point without stealing some/all of your work to this point. We all want our trucks to be better and you’ve given us that opportunity. I truly think everyone wants you to succeed and, like myself, may not be the best with words. Granted, I don’t think I’m rude or disrespectful nor demanding or insulting as some I’ve seen here but then again this is text and text is easily mistaken in various forms kind of like the same hardware and software on our trucks yet they’re so much different.

Anyway thanks for taking the time to respond as even though I don’t speak car Chinese like you, the rest of the comments were well stated and I respect it.

Also, take care and enjoy the holidays. I’ve also stated you are supposed to be on vacation and away from the product a few times

 

04B14, 04B33, 04B81, 04B91, and the 2021s (04B00, 04B20, and 04B30) should all be the same software under the hood as far as driveability and feel.

I felt 04B14 and 04B91 back to back and it was as similar as two different Tacos should feel.

 

04B81 is ok, but OVTune still makes a nice difference.

 

Should be lol

 

My amateur view. I did add a bit to that post after thinking back a few months.

 

If you update to 04B33 can you reverse it back to 04B31?