New Audio System - Opinions?

Hey Tacomaworld!

After some considerable research, here is the equipment choices I have made for a new system for my 2014 DCSB. Trying to find that fine line on the Venn diagram for SQ/$$/My own fabrication skills .

I have ordered everything up and thought I would throw it out there for comments from the experts before I start the install over the next couple of weeks (still open to changing as I have no problems returning/exchanging equipment with my supply choices).


Electronics
HU - Kenwood DMX957XR
Factory Integration - Maestro iDataLink RR and Tacoma Harnesses
Front Speakers - Hertz MLK 165.3 (4Ohm)
Sub - JL Audio Stealthbox (10TW3) (2Ohm)
Amp - Kenwood - X802-5 (50w x 4 + 500w x 1 OR 150w x 2 Bridged + 500w x1)

Install gear
4AWG - Amp power kit (Power/Ground/100Amp Fuse)
16AWG - Speaker wire (12 gauge for the short run to the sub)
4 channel RCA cable (1 set for front L/R and 1 set for sub)
Metra double DIN dash kit for a Tacoma (I also ordered Scosche kit to see which one I like better.... reading some complaints about the metra kit)
Scosche adapter rings for the door speaker mounts

Sound Treatment
46 SQ feet of 80mil Noico sound deadening mat
36 SQ feet of 150mil Noico Red CCF insulation
20 SQ feet of 315mil Noico Red CCF insulation
a bunch of 1/2inch x 1/2inch neoprene stripping
a roll of butyl rope

Looking at doing doors and rear wall. If I have left overs, I will look at other areas too.
Also looking at ordering a roll of MLV to add to the doors/rear wall.

One last item is I will initially set this up passive with the Hertz XOvers on the Kenwood amp with the 4 front channels bridged to 150W x 2 and see how things sound. I am also exploring running 2-way active (plus sub) with a dsp as some point. This would drop power to 50W x 4. If you have any advice there, that would be great.

Let me know your thoughts!

Mike

 

I’m sure you’ll be happy with that system.
If you’re trying to keep it in a budget, stick with the passive crossovers and the Kenwood’s settings for now. You get decent EQ and basic time alignment. See if you like it that way. It might nail it for price/performance.
I would make sure to run wires from the door woofer AND the tweeter location back to the amp, and mount your crossovers near the amp. This way, upgrading to fully active (or swapping speakers/crossovers down the road) will be much easier.

 

This is not enough power for these speakers IMO.

Edit: Unless you run it bridged for front only and power the rear door speakers with something else.

 

Plan is to run 150w x 2 bridged. I wasn't planning on anything for the rear. If I want to fill in a little, I may run something off the head unit (I can get 22 watts there). If I eventually go active, I may sell this amp and do something like the Audio Control

$599 D-4.800 4/3/2 Channel High Power 800 Watts Car Audio Amplifier W/DSP & Matrixing, Premium High-Fidelity

D-4.800 (gives me 125w x 4 for the mids/tweets and the built in DSP control I want) and a separate amp for the sub. For now I was trying to limit the installlation invasion of trashing the plastic bins behind the seat and find an all in one amp solution that fit in the Stealthbox amp recess.

Thanks for the replies!

 

Let’s just take a minute on that and figure out what we really want to do before buying an amplifier you sort of already plan on replacing.

 

That'll work fine, but I'd personally start active and get the best results you can right off. The difference between passive and active, even with a modest DSP, is night and day. And the good news there - that head unit has DSP built right in. No need to purchase additional hardware!

• 13-band graphic EQ
• time alignment
• Drive EQ and digital signal processing
• 3-way crossover

My only concern would be the amp power for the midwoofers. 50W is easily more than enough for the tweets, but the woofers could probably use moar. I'd plan on sealing up the doors as well if you're up for it...again a night and day difference. It's worth the effort.

Looking forward to the build!

 

I hear you... I have the option to return anything I have on order (60 day return policy). So I am open to any suggestions....? Only reason I opted for the Kenwood to start was I was familiar with passive set-ups (last time I was into car audio was mid 90s...LOL) and it hit all the check-boxes with a bridged set up for the components + a decent sub channel for the Stealthbox.... all in a small form factor at a reasonable $$ amount. This rabbit hole of DSPs and active channel management is very recent for me and is causing all the rethink! If the webs didn't exist, I would have just slapped this stuff in and would have been none the wiser.

I like the idea of using the HU to start. I can always add a less costly DSP (something like the Dayton 408) if i wanted more control over EQ on individual channels I suppose. I agree with the limited output for the midwoofs by using the Kenwood in 50w x 4 configuration. Seems like 2 amps may be the only option to make this work active from day 1. Not many 1 amp options that would fit this (at least that I can find available). I am located in Canada, so my buying options are somewhat limited (mostly the major brands or US retailers/manufacturers that work well with us Canadians ) without heavy import/shipping costs.

I guess I could add a 2 channel amp alongside the Kenwood just to run midwoofs. That would also free up 2 x 50watts for rear fill if I wanted it. Another option is to leave the Kenwood bridged and put in a small amp just for tweets (and maybe rear fill).

I still like the idea of a 1 amp solution for install reasons if you had any other ideas. Although I am neck deep into it now, so install compromises are in the cards.

By sealing the doors, you mean covering the inner door skin access hole (sheet of ABS or something sized to fit) and sealing up with CLD tiles as best as possible? I had that in my plan.

 

Seriously, setting up an active system is easy. There may be a little bit of a learning curve if you don't get all the topics, but when you consider the steep performance gains it's a no-brainer if you already own the gear. And you don't have to fool with mounting the passive crossovers.

I can't think of a single amp that will do that and still give you a powerful substage (Class D anyway - pretty sure McIntosh made an AB if you can find, fit and afford one). I use an XD 600/6 for something similar - 4 channels bridged for 200 on my midwoofers then 75 each for the tweeters (what can I say - I like headroom) - then a small 550W sub amp. A small tweeter amp might be a good solution too - using what you already have.

And yeah, that's exactly what I mean by sealing doors. ABS or steel sheet for the big holes. Maybe damper panels for the smaller stuff. Because I can't commit to modifying my truck, I'm covering one large and one small hole with a couple layers of OG CLD tiles and it made a huge difference - probably because a door will never be a perfect enclosure so OCD there might be overkill. You have to keep your drain holes, the window seals will always leak, latches, etc so it really acts more like an aperiodic membrane no matter how far you take it (unless you build actual enclosures in the doors).

 

Really appreciate everyone's input!

OK... I think I have refined my future path options a little without impacting what I have planned for now.

Initial Phase:

• Install what I have on order in a passive configuration (2 x 150w bridged to the components) and use the built in TA and EQ functions from the HU as best I can initially.
  
• Install the passive X-overs on a separate mount behind the rear seat (Driver side) and run appropriate speaker wire(s) to the components in the doors. If I want to move to active, I already have the wire run from behind the seat and it would make adding in a second amp fairly straight forward.
• Change up the power wire configuration (move from 4AWG to 1/0 AWG for main power/ground with a fused power distribution and a ground distribution block added in so I am ready to add a second amp down the road).
  
• Get my hands on an appropriate USB mic and use REW to do some measurements to see how I can tweak with the gear as configured with the controls I do have at the beginning. It may be a challenge with initial limitations, but I can likely learn a ton about tuning and set-up this way. Recommendations for a mic set up for this would be great. (I think this one looks reasonable... miniDSP UMIK-1 USB... and will do what i need).

I know how these projects always end up for me. I can never leave good enough alone and I always want to go deeper so... Once I get completely frustrated with that set-up and want to improve further .....

Future Phase(s):

• I could be to add something like the Kenwood Excelon X302-4 (Gives me another 50W x 4 or 150W x 2). With this added on I could then move fully active with 150w x 2 to the 6.5s and 50w x 2 to the tweets, leaving me 50w x 2 if I wanted to add back in rear fill (I think this would be down the road a little once I get more experience with the 2-way + Sub tuning).
  
• I could then look at a more powerful DSP if I wanted more control (than what the HU offers).

This path I think achieves an end goal I can see my self moving toward, but gives fairly straight forward path to add the equipment only when/as needed, without having to sell/swap out anything I already would have.

Make sense? Only question in my mind right now.... Is there another/better option than Kenwood for the initial and future add-on amp that gives me a similar power configuration, with a similar upgrade path, at a similar cost? As I initially indicated, the only reason I chose Kenwood to start, was it checked the spec boxes I thought I needed for the $, from a fairly solid manufacturer I have used in the past.

Thanks!

 

You’re going to love everything about this system but the power in those mid bass and I would highly recommend going active from the jump. Everything to me imo looks good besides the amps your putting on those Mille legends bc they shine like a diamond with power. The audio control amps sound great on these speakers at 120wrms fwiw

 

You have me thinking hard. I can use Crutchfield's generous return policy for the Kenwood (It actually hasn't even arrived yet).

I would ideally use the 6 channel version to have one amp installation, however it appears that if I bridged 5 and 6 for the sub, it won't play well with the 2ohm sub (manual indicates its rated for 4 ohm load only). Looking at the 4 channel version for the front stage with a second mono amp for the sub. Would you recommend using the built in DSP versions from AC for the 4 channel or use something else stand alone. I figure I only need a 6 channel dsp (maybe 8 if I want to go 3 way... or play with rear fill).

Thanks!

 

Make sure your DSP can process rear fill if you're expecting it to do that. Rear fill (done properly) requires that the unit perform a calculation for rear speakers and most DSPs don't do this. Otherwise it will fight your front stage.

 

Just me personally I’d play with the software of the JL twk and helix mini dsp or dsp.3. Audio control software is simple and user friendly but so are the other two. The helix is the more capable and powerful of the 3 mentioned by a pretty good margin but the twk is very good too. Not a fan of audio control dsp but that’s just my opinion and there is nothing wrong with it.

Yes if you’re planning on running rear fill you’ll wanna run it mono L minus R

 

Thanks all... Did a bunch of reading on rear fill for SQ applications. Looks like I need a DSP that can remove remove the common center signal from both the left and right channels (left signal only playing on left side and right signal only playing on right side... no center signal information at all).... and then attenuate and delay so I can make the rear sound like large room reflections.
EDIT: And band-pass that as well

I think I have a plan. I may put up a build log once I get my system sorted and then document the install.

 

So I think I have sorted out what I would like to do:

• Audio Control LC-800.4 Will get me 125W for each component of the front stage (gives a little headroom when looking woof and tweet individually not connected through the passive xover).
  
• JL Audio JD500/1 to match up with the stealth box (seems reasonably priced and matches up, with some headroom, with 10TW3 wired at 2 ohms)
  
• I did some work with the demo versions of JL's TUN and the Helix software. Although the Helix seems to be potentially more powerful its also more expensive for potential I may never use. So I have decided the Twk 88 will meet my goals (would allow for enough channels for 3-way up front)

As I mentioned I would put up build log once I get this moving.

Mike

 

Left minus right

That will be a nice setup. I’ve got a JL audio HD 600/4 for sale. Would get you 300 x 2 @3-8 ohms for a pair of subs or 150 x 2 @1-4 ohms and 300 x 1 @3-8 ohms. Pics and listed on diyma. It’s a little more expensive than the JD but it’s a steal at the asking price. I’m taking it down Friday though to clean it up and don’t know if I’ll end up letting it go or not after that. Either way you’ll really like the audio control amps and the twk 88 imo. Great choices