PennSilverTaco's "Perfect 5-Lug Regular Cab" Build, Aspergers, and General BS MegaThread!

My aunt's 2001 Jeep Cherokee suffered from a total engine failure in 2018 at less than 90K miles because she didn't maintain it; Also, a lot of lower-mileage older vehicles suffer mechanical issues not because they were poorly maintained but just because they spent more time parked than on the road and parts wore out...

I'd take an immaculate 150K-mile vehicle over a decent but barely driven low-mileage vehicle of the same year, make, and model any day of the week!

 

Right but l was thinking of a solid clean body if you were planning a drivetrain swap.

 

The reason my aunt and uncle bought the minivan was because my aunt was pregnant with my cousin (who is now almost 35 and has a kid of his own! ). Their 1986 Plymouth Voyager was a LOADED top-trim LE model; 2.6L, automatic transmission, A/C, cruise, tilt, intermittent wipers*, and an AM/FM cassette; My uncle says that the van had power windows and locks, and while it may have had power locks, I seem to remember that it had crank windows, but memories of the other aunt's silver 1994 Grand Caravan (which definitely DID have manual windows) may have melded with memories of the red 1986 Voyager...

As stated earlier the base, SE, and LE only represented different upholstery, seat, and paint options; It was possible to get a FULLY LOADED base model and it was possible to get an LE with minimal options and creature comforts. Even air-conditioning and the ability to listen to FM radio stations cost significantly extra money in the LE!

*Intermittent wipers cost extra on all trim levels, even the LE; My aunt and uncle opted for pretty much every available option, and I also believe that intermittent wipers were included by default when the cruise/tilt package was selected. I believe intermittent wipers became standard across the board beginning in 1987, and 1988 was the last year for a standard AM radio; Beginning in 1989, a 4-speaker AM/FM stereo became standard on all models, with the option to delete the radio for a credit.

 

Yeah, probably gonna have to search California or Florida for that; My work's 2012 Dodge Grand Caravan has rust and paint issues!

 

Funny how there are so many different ways to equip vehicles.

 

They lived in Georgia, but the closest dealer offering the best deal was in Alabama (Birmingham, I believe); This dealer had a van in the same color red they ended up ordering, but it had red interior (Whorehouse Red, as I like to call it) and they did not like that color so they ordered a van in dark red with a gray interior.

 

The van itself was mechanically sound, but by the early 1990s the rear liftgate would no longer stay up on its own and they resorted to carrying a wooden fence post in the van to keep it propped up during loading and unloading...

In 1994 or so, the A/C compressor completely seized and wouldn't turn; I don't know why the clutch wasn't spinning, but because the engine used one serpentine belt, the van was unable to start. Making things worse was the fact that my aunt, uncle, and cousins were visiting us in Pennsylvania and it was the middle of summer; I forget whether they were still living in Maryland or if they'd moved to
Virginia - If they still lived in Maryland, it was prior to November 1994; If they lived in Virginia, it was the summer of 1995 at the earliest - I have absolutely no memory of the this specific incident with the Voyager's A/C taking a shit, but we moved into the first Pennsylvania house in November 1990; My aunt, uncle, and cousins would drive up to visit us at least once a summer (and a couple times in the fall/winter). We moved out of the North Wales house in June 1996, and the last time I can remember my aunt, uncle, and cousins coming up to visit prior to us selling the house was for my 7th birthday in March 1996.

Luckily, Uncle Craig was also visiting from California with his family; My aunt and uncle needed to get home, and replacing an A/C compressor is not something that can be done in an hour or less, and generally not without an appointment...

A trip was made to either an auto parts store or a dealership, where a non-A/C 2.6L serpentine belt was purchased. Uncle Craig cut off the fan belt and installed the new one, effectively bypassing the A/C compressor; The van now started and ran just fine, but now you had a family of four (including boys who were about 5 and 8 at the time) looking at a 3-hour drive home in the summer with no A/C!



It may have been as early 1991, but while Uncle Craig does does not remember the exact date, he believes it was 1994 or 1995; Regardless of the year, the bumper-to-bumper warranty on that van was long since expires, so I guarantee you my aunt and uncle had to pay out of pocket to replace the A/C compressor.

They did get the A/C fixed (R-12 was still plentiful back then so I’m guessing they did not convert it, either), and it worked fine for the remaining three years they owned the van.

 

In about 1995 or 1996, they were visiting my uncle’s parents in Virginia Beach, and the family dog escaped during a rainstorm; The streets were flooded, and the van stalled when my aunt drove into several inches of water. No water came into the interior, and from what I’ve been told the engine was not catastrophically damaged, but my aunt couldn’t get it restarted and they had to abandon it until the waters receded a few hours later; That van had a carburetor and I’m thinking it was more sensitive to water than an EFI motor. I think my uncle may have had to replace the spark plugs, but the van had no lasting issues from that debacle.

 

Seriously considering sneaking the car out for a quick spin today as the roads are dry and it's not freezing cold.

 

Cars progress quickly, and the original minivan was no exception; 1986 was the final year for the original basic design...

1987 brought with it an extended-wheelbase “Grand” variant and optional V6 power, and rear A/C became available for the first time in 1988; The venerable (in my opinion) 3.3L V6 became available in 1989. By the early 1990s, antilock brakes were available and a driver’s airbag was standard by 1992; Dual airbags became standard in 1994.

By 1994, when the oldest of these minivans were a decade old, they were already starting to disappear; Those that weren’t totaled before the end of the decade likely ended up in the junkyard when they suffered an expensive mechanical failure. The ones that were still roadworthy, I’m guessing anyway, were former family vehicles passed down to newly licensed teenaged offspring as first vehicle; A good number of these likely also ended up on “Buy Here Pay Here” lots or were purchased outright but lower income people. I continued to see a good number of pre-1987 “Original” minivans on the road into the late 1990s and early 2000s, but I have not seen one in person outside of a car show in at least a decade

 

My aunt and uncle are not poor; Both have masters degrees and had really good jobs prior to retiring. They have just been really stingy with cars and tend to hold onto them for a decade or more (like me)!

Not only was the family vehicle a 1986 Plymouth Voyager until the summer of 1997, but aside from slightly faded paint and normal wear and tear, that van was in great shape. A vehicle that’s over a decade old is different than one that was over decade old in the late 1990s; The Voyager had a carbureted engine, no airbags, and no ABS!

 

My uncle insists that they traded the 1986 Voyager for the 1997 Voyager, but I distinctly remember them still having both vehicles in the summer of 1997 and actually going for a ride with the family in the older one “one last time” that summer, and then they sold it privately. I can’t imagine that van being worth more than $1,500 at the time...

 

The 1997 Voyager was very well maintained and always reliable, but my aunt backed into my Grandma’s 1988 Buick LeSabre in 2000. The Buick strangely had no damage, which was lucky because my Grandma sold it and bought a brand new LeSabre that same year. The van’s right rear quarter panel was dented in and had a scratch, but my aunt and uncle never got it fixed. The paint was not damaged, though there was a scuff mark, and it never chipped or rusted; They traded that van for a new 2009 RAV4 with the massive dent still there!

The van ran great, the A/C blew cold, and there wasn’t anything wrong with it beyond the usual age-related rattles and squeaks; Unfortunately, “Cash for Clunkers” was too good a deal to pass up...

The van had its engine destroyed, and likely ended up in a junkyard where it was either parted out or just crushed.

 

I used to make fun of my aunt and uncle for driving older “uncool” vehicles in the early 2000s when my parents were driving fairly new vehicles...

For example, in 2002, my dad had a mint 1996 Nissan Pathfinder SE 4x4 and my mom was driving the 2000 GMC Safari...

My aunt was driving a 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera that had been given to them by my uncle’s parents, who were the original owners; My uncle was driving the aforementioned 1997 Plymouth Voyager with the huge dent in the side.

In October or November of that year, my uncle bought a brand new 2002 Nissan Frontier, my aunt started driving the minivan again, and my cousin who was almost 17 and in the process of getting his driver’s license got the 1989 Oldsmobile. The first Oldsmobile suddenly died with like 135K miles on it sometime in 2003, and my cousin got a 1994 Oldsmobile Eighty-eight from his grandparents; That car was in mint condition with relatively low miles for a 10-year old car, and my cousin trashed it. They ended up donating it to Purple Heart when the transmission went, and helped my cousin buy a 2003 Mazda6.

 

As of 2021, my aunt and uncle’s fleet consists of...

• The aforementioned 2002 Nissan Frontier that has like 130K miles on it and still has the original clutch.
• The 2009 RAV4 Limited that the 1997 Voyager was traded for, with probably closer to 150K on it now.
• Another 2009 RAV4 (but a base model), purchased for my other cousin in 2012 or so after he graduated from college, and given to him with no strings attached (like me with the Tacoma).
• A 2018 or 2019 Highlander XLE purchased new, which they will probably still be driving in the 2030s...

I now thoroughly believe that holding onto an older but supremely reliable vehicle is a stroke of genius!

 

The last time I saw a pre-1987 example of one of these vans was probably about seven years ago at a cruise night in Morrisville; I forget whether it was a Caravan or a Voyager, whether it was an SE or an LE (definitely NOT a base), and even what year it was (It was definitely not a 1986, and I THINK it was a 1984).

The guy showing it had gotten it from the family of the original owner, and it had relatively high miles (over 100K), but it looked like it was fresh off the showroom floor! It had A/C, cruise, and tilt, but no power windows; It also had an AM radio. The A/C had been converted to R134a and worked great (the owner let me hold my hand in front of a vent), and the van was totally stock. The van had actually won trophies, and when I asked the owner why he didn’t put a new radio or at least a stock OEM radio with an AM/FM cassette he looked at me like I was crazy; He was adamant about keeping that van 100% stock, and if I remember correctly he was donating it to the big car museum in Hersey...

 

I don't know what my obsession with Chrysler minivans is all of a sudden; Maybe it's some sort of subconscious thing because they were a significant part of my childhood...?

The owner of the "Concours Quality" 1980s van mentioned above said that whenever he showed the van and there a flashy muscle car, or a rare European sports car or luxury sedan nearby, people would always pay more attention to the van; Almost everyone he talked to had one in their life in one way or another at some point.

I also believe that an old Caravan or Voyager would be cheaper to buy than a 1980s station wagon!

 

When we lived in Oak Harbor, there was another military family living in a culdesac around the corner from us; The kids weren't my close friends and I did not know them very well, but the wife/mom was very friendly. The family vehicle was a 1999 or 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan, silver in color; This was 2001 or 2002, so the van was practically new, and it looked like any other Caravan except for one thing...

It had been purchased in Europe (Possibly Germany) while the husband was stationed there; To the untrained eye, it looked just like any other Caravan! However, it had a license plate recess for a longer but narrow European plate.

The Chrysler minivans were offered with a manual transmission well into the 2000s in Europe, while 1994 was the last year for the third pedal in North America (at least in the USA; Don't know about Canada). A 4-cylinder diesel engine was also available on European-spec versions of these vans from about 1993 onward (Someone on Jalopnik brought a diesel/5-speed 1993 Caravan into the states recently and registered it as a classic vehicle). I don't remember how I got into a conversation with a random military wife about her late model minivan, but then again I am Charlie and I've been getting into discussions with random strangers about their sometimes unremarkable vehicles since I learned to talk!

This van was not a diesel and certainly not manual, and it was LHD so it certainly wasn't originally intended for the UK or Irish market. In Germany and Japan (possibly other countries), there's a program only for active duty American military where they can buy brand new American-spec vehicles tax-free and then bring them back home with them when their tour is over. My boss's dad, who was in the Air Force, bought a Ford Windstar and a Toyota Tercel while stationed at Ramstein in the 1990s (still has the Tercel) and brought them back home with him when his tour was over.

 

What throws me through a loop is that if the van was in fact a US-market model, it shouldn't have been set up for European plates even if it was sold in Europe; Some Euro-spec versions of vehicles that are virtually identical to their American-market counterparts have the same engines and transmissions, but emissions standards in Europe are different than in North America. From what I've read, vehicles sold in the US can be legally registered and driven in the United Kingdom with almost no modifications. A lot of military families and civilian expats bring their US-market vehicles to the UK, and then leave them there because they don't feel like paying for shipoping back to America. From what I've read, all North American-spec cars will pass emissions testing in the UK with ease, but vehicles with European emissions equipment won't pass emissions here without modifications. Apparently, taillights are different in Europe than they are here, and they must be replaced on US-spec cars over there to pass the MOT...

Seattle metro was the only area in Washington state that required annual emissions testing in the early 2000s if I remember correctly, and Oak Harbor did not require any inspection. This van most certainly had the 3.3L or 3.8L V6, just like those sold in the US and Canada. It probably would not have passed smog in California with the European emissions equipment installed, but it was registered in Washington and since there was no emissions testing in that part of Washington, the DMV probably didn't give a shit.

 

When we moved into the on-base housing at Moffett Field in Mach 1997, one of the families who moved in after us a had a brand new Camry LE that they'd bought in Germany. Unlike the aforementioned Caravan owned by the neighbors in Washington, this Camry was set up for American plates; I'm also pretty sure it was registered in California, which means that it passed smog. I was friends with their daughter, and remembering grilling her mom with questions about the Camry since my parents also had a Camry at the time. From what I remember, this car was purchased duty-free through that program for military families, driven in Germany for a bit, and then shipped back to the states where it was issued a California title and plates.

I believe the father was as either Air Force or Army (he was NOT Navy like my dad); He drove a goldish tan 1985 Pontiac Grand Prix (like a Cutlass or Grand National, but a Pontiac) with T-tops and these turbine-style aluminum wheels with accents color-matched to the exterior paint. He took really good care of that thing, and it looked brand new!

My dad let me sit in his lap and steer so many times over the years that I lost count, but it was always in one of our older vehicles that did not have airbags and certainly never on US government property! Imagine my shock one afternoon when I was outside our house playing and the aforementioned 1997 Camry pulls up with my friend sitting in her mom's lap steering. The Camry has come equipped with a driver's side airbag since 1992, and dual airbags have been standard since 1994. I was in absolutely no position to confront my friend's mom, but my parents hadn't let me ride shotgun in the 1996 Pathfinder in almost a year at that point (this was sometime in 1997) because all these stories about kids under 12 and/or under 60 pounds being severely injured or even killed had come out. Our 1990 Camry did not have any airbags, so my parents always let me ride in the front.

Military bases often have stricter safety rules for driving on base than the state in which the base is located; For example, motorcycle helmets must always be worn while riding on base even if the state in which the base is located does not require them to be worn.

My friend's name was Leigha (like the Star Wars princess); I forget the parents' first names and the family's last name escapes me as well, so we will just call them Mr. Pontiac and Mrs. Camry...

Mrs. Camry had taken Leigha with her to go shopping at the commissary, which was obviously on base (I miss the commissary ) and more than a mile (probably less) from our house (also on base); She spontaneously decided to let Leigha sit in her lap and steer on the drive home. I am utterly amazed that an MP (or whoever was in charge of traffic enforcement on the base) didn't pull them over and at a bare minimum give them a stern talking to!