Concealed Carry on Campus?

This is fucked up!

 

Virtually anywhere carrying is forbidden adds a whole new meaning to "give me liberty or give me death."

It could be understood (on college campuses in particular) as "Give me a gun or give me death, because chances are good without my gun I'll be dead anyway!"

It is rarely the lawful owners and gun-carrying members of society we need to worry about... if you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns

 

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/LAtimespiece.html


Letting Teachers Pack Guns Will Make America's Schools Safer


By John R. Lott Jr.

John R. Lott Jr., a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, is the author of the newly released "The Bias Against Guns" (Regnery, 2003).
Banning guns from schools seems the obvious way to keep children safe. Utah, though, is doing the opposite, and is stirring up debate across the nation.
Acting under a new state law, school districts across Utah have started drawing up regulations allowing teachers and other public employees to carry concealed guns on school property. Opponents are still trying to fight the law, and at first glance their concern about firearms in schools is understandable. Last Sunday in New Jersey, an attack by armed teenagers against three fellow students and randomly chosen townspeople was narrowly averted.
But that's not the whole picture. Consider an analogy: Suppose a criminal is stalking you or your family. Would you feel safe putting a sign in front of your home saying, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? Law-abiding citizens might be pleased by such a sign, but to criminals it would be an invitation.
In 1985, just eight states had right-to-carry laws — laws that automatically grant permits for concealed weapons once applicants pass a criminal background check, pay their fees and, when required, complete a training class. Today, 35 states do.
Examining all the multiple-victim public shootings in the United States from 1977 to 1999 shows that on average, states that adopt right-to-carry laws experience a 60% drop in the rates at which the attacks occur, and a 78% drop in the rates at which people are killed or injured from such attacks.
To the extent such attacks still occurred in right-to-carry states, they overwhelmingly take place in so-called "gun-free zones." Indeed, the attack last week in Meridian, Miss., in which five people were killed took place in a Lockheed Martin plant where employees were forbidden to have guns.
The effect of right-to-carry laws is greater on multiple-victim public shootings than on other crimes for a simple reason: Increasing the probability that someone will be able to protect himself improves deterrence. Though it may be statistically unlikely that any single person in a crowd is carrying a concealed handgun, the probability that at least one person is armed is high.
Contrary to many people's impressions, before the federal law was enacted in 1995 it was possible for teachers and other adults with concealed-handgun permits to carry guns on school property in many states.
Many of the concerns about accidents and other problems are unwarranted. The real problems at schools occurred only after the ban. The rash of student shootings at schools began in October 1997 in Pearl, Miss.
Public reaction against guns is understandable, given the horrific events shown on TV. But the more than 2 million times each year that Americans use guns defensively are never discussed. In more than 90% of those cases, simply brandishing a weapon is sufficient to cause a criminal to break off an attack. My research also shows that citizens with guns helped stop about a third of the post-1997 public school shootings, stepping in before uniformed police could arrive.
Last year, news broadcasts on the three main TV networks carried about 190,000 words on gun crime stories. Not one segment featured a civilian using a gun to stop a crime. Newspapers are not much better.
Police are extremely important in deterring crime, but they almost always arrive after the crime has been committed. Annual surveys of crime victims in the United States by the Justice Department show that when confronted by a criminal, people are safest if they have a gun.
Just as the threat of arrest and prison can deter criminals, so can the fact that victims can defend themselves.
For multiple-victim shootings, the biggest factor determining the amount of harm is the length of time between when an attack starts and when someone with a gun can stop the attack. The longer the delay, the more are harmed.
Good intentions do not necessarily make good laws. What counts is whether the laws ultimately save lives. Unfortunately, too many gun laws primarily disarm law-abiding citizens, not criminals.

 

I'm a big believer in concealed carry and think that John Lott makes a lot of good points in his books/articles. That being said, whatever points the guy tries to make from here on out are worthless. He got caught citing fictional people to support his arguments. I don't care if he says the sky is blue and water is wet; dude has no credibility.

 

Zulu....you talking about Lott

Oh got this out of Wikipedia

Disputed survey

In the course of a dispute with Otis Dudley Duncan in 1999-2000,[48] Lott claimed to have undertaken a national survey of 2,424 respondents in 1997, the results of which were the source for claims he had made beginning in 1997.[49] However, in 2000 Lott was unable to produce the data, or any records showing that the survey had been undertaken. He said the 1997 hard drive crash that had affected several projects with co-authors had destroyed his survey data set,[50] the original tally sheets had been abandoned with other personal property in his move from Chicago to Yale, and he could not recall the names of any of the students who he said had worked on it. Following extensive publicity, James Hamilton, a retired detective in Tennessee, came forward saying that he had taken the survey. David Gross, a former city prosecutor and former NRA board member came forward to say that he had been interviewed for a gun survey, and he thought that he was interviewed in the spring of 1997, probably by people working for Lott.[51] Critics alleged that the survey had never taken place,[52] but Lott defends the survey's existence and accuracy, quoting on his website colleagues who lost data in the hard drive crash.[53]

 

Yep. From what I understand of it, he relies heavily on a national survey about the use of concealed weapons to support his argument. When Lott was called pressed to provide the details/date of the survey, he couldn't. A big call went out for any of the thousands surveyed to step forward and support Lott's claims. A few guys came forward to support him....though if I recall correctly, one of them (the detective) was a buddy of Lott's. Another was an NRA lobbyist, or something like that, who was known for being a full-on rabid supporter of concealed carry.

Another knock against the existence of the survey: Lott's grad students that volunteered to help him conduct the survey and gather data also seem to be fictional. Do a google search for "Mary Rose".

-----

The "more guns, less crime" argument seems sound, but the guy set the whole concealed carry movement back by making shit up to support it.

 

Sorry to threadjack.

On the topic of concealed carry on campus: I would fully support it.

As it stands, there are already very specific requirements to purchasing a handgun and obtaining a concealed carry permit. One of those requirements is that a person be 21 years of age. It's silly to assume that a 21 year old, who has met those requirements and is deemed responsible enough to publicly carry a concealed weapon off-campus, will somehow lose their minds and become irresponsible the second they set foot on campus.

I would, however, be against allowing students to store their weapons in college dorms as they have little control over who has access to their room. While the gun owner may be responsible, their assigned roommate and the roommates idiot buddies may not be.

 

No shit.

 

In GA it is campus-choice whether or not to allow CC on campus. im pretty sure my college does not permit it, BUT they do allow you to have a weapon in your vehicle on campus if you have a CWP.

on that note i am 100% for CC on campus. there have been several armed robberies and break-ins on and around campus this semester and i carry my gun (in my truck) everywhere i go. yes i have my concealed carry license.

 

Dag-gone Zulu....hated to see that....

Your last post....dead on

 

I too am for a 21 year that passes the particular states requirements be allowed to carry on campus. I say this knowing I have a 19 year old daughter away at school in Texas.



I have had my CHL since they first allowed it in Texas thus requiring several renewals to maintain my license. Some Observations while attending these CHL classes:

• I would say of all the classes I attended 80% of the attendees were above the age of 60.
• 90% of the class appeared to have very little knowledge with their firearm.
• 10-20% had never fired the firearm they brought to class

These things scare me more than the thought of a 21 year old not being mature enough to get a CHL and carrying on campus. It is also became apparent to me that 21 year olds aren't standing in line to get a CHL so the ones that are willing to take the classes and go through the process are taking this "Enormous Responsibility" seriously.
Another thought that came to mine also was be careful before you toot your horn at the old guy driving 10 mph under the speedlimit in the fast lane.

Just as an FYI,
I am 50 years old so this isn't a knock on senior citizens, I am merely trying to make a point that young or old getting a CHL is a big responsibility and shouldn't be taken lightly.

I also making these observationsby being an individual that has been shooting(or was at the time) competitivley around Texas in the IDPA which required me to practice shooting 3k-4k rounds a month in all types of scenarios.

No pro here just a guy that has spent alot of time at ranges thus being exposed to all types of behavior and firearm expertise.

One last thought, someone on here mentioned LEO's protecting them, while many are proficient with their firearm and true professionals there are many that aren't as I have also observed at ranges all over the country.

Be Carried by 6 or Judged by 12 ????????

Just my .02

 

not really...SB308 passed and it decriminalized the carrying of guns by licensed individuals in their autos...the college can make no rule controlling the carry of guns on campus(granted you can be given written permission but its not gonna happen) the school can not ban the carry in cars

Georgia has no concealed carry license it has a Georgia Weapons License that allows for the carrying of pistols and the carry of knives over 5 inches...both open and concealed carry is legal.

there are numerous people allowed to carry on campus now and the school can not stop them the list is at OCGA 16-11-130

the general assembly has preempted any govt body from regulating guns in any manner except cities can pass a mandatory gun ownership law like Kennessaw has


might want to join www.GeorgiaCarry.org if you are not already a member and also check out www.georgiapacking.org

 

not in every state...some allow it at 18 like Alabama. hypothetically an 18 year old could carry to high school if their county sheriff gives them an unrestricted permit


the SCOTUS already has held a ban on guns in the home is not constitutional...if you live on campus your dorm is in fact your home......

 

A dorm room is not a home. Were it a home then students would have rights beyond the most basic rights to privacy. They would not be required to open their doors for RA's to do inspections for contraband, damage to school property or just check on overall living conditions. They would have the right to choose who they live with, if anyone at all.

Attending college is not a Constitutional right. It is a privilege. As such, you cannot dictate the terms of your living arrangements while staying as a guest on campus. An example of this is the fact that the vast majority of college students living in dorms are assigned one or more roommates. The quality of the person you are living with is just the luck of the draw. While the potential gun owning roommate may be upstanding, the other roommates they are stuck with could have a history of mental illness, domestic violence, drug addiction/abuse, etc. In addition to the roommates, the building RA, maintenance guy and everyone working in the dorm life office (the guys that issue replacements for lost keys) all have master keys. In short, the gun owner would have little control over who has access to their firearm.

To restate my previous point: there is no reason that people with a CC permit should not be able to carry on campus. Guns in dorm rooms opens the door to too many potential risks. Don't like it? Don't live in the dorms.

 

im pretty sure they can. the way i understand it is that there is no law to be punished under, but im sure if you are caught on campus carrying a weapon (permit or not) they have rules to punish with (such as expulsion).

and the whole purpose of the "Georgia Firearms License" is so a person can legally carry a side arm on them, concealed or not. most people prefer the concealed choice, and everyone i know including me calls it a concealed weapons permit

 

I attended 4 years of college and i own a permit/pistol. Carry on campus is a horrible idea IMHO, and as a gun owner an idea i would never agree with. It's like asking to carry on an airplane. College is a learning enviroment, and as someone else stated college kids are very emotional. I'm not talking about the guy carrying the gun being emotional, i'm talking about the liberal dumbasses who will have a problem with it and make it a problem.

 

I've got my CWP and have yet carried my pistol a single time. I don't think I'd feel comfortable with it. I've carried it in the Truck and that has been fine. I won't leave it in the truck cause with my luck someone would break in to it and I'd be out a pistol.

 

In what way is carrying a concealed weapon on campus the same as carrying a concealed weapon on an airplane? I don't believe the two scenarios are even remotely similar.

No, college kids are all dope-smoking hippies. Its women who are emotional. Also, Mexicans are lazy and black folks can't swim. See how silly stereotypical blanket statements sound?

How could a very, very small percentage of college students make CC on campus a problem? IIRC, there are more than a few "liberal dumbasses" outside of the collegiate environment who have a problem with folks carrying concealed handguns....and yet, here we are.

 

not being allowed to carry on 9/11 cause the catastrophe........disdain for civil rights never works out. i am in college and i dont know where everyone gets off saying college kids are so emotional?? its not like that maybe south GA is different from the rest of the country.... and where is Utahs problems with carry on campus?? they have no school shootings i wonder why

.Cesare Beccaria will explain:

 

no they cant make any rules(see below for GA constitution/case law citations).... you wont have to worry about expulsion as you will be going to jail unless you are exempt under 16-11-130.... as for no law there definitely is......if you are an exempt individual they may not make any rules concerning the carrying of firearms...as for calling its a CWP or CCW it is not...it was a Georgia Firearms License and now the name is a Georgia Weapons License as it also allows the carrying of knives concealed whereas only open carry of knives was allowed before... concealed carry of guns is also a recent thing within the last 15-20 years but Open Carry has never been banned since the State of Georgia creation


GA state constitution says:

/\says nothing about the board of regents making any rules.... only the general assembly has that power


http://www.georgiapacking.org/caselaw/sturm-rugervcity-of-atlanta.htm

http://www.georgiapacking.org/caselaw/gcovcoweta.pdf

the law concerning school carry is found under OCGA 16-11-127.1