Death Valley Off-Road Adventures

It's beyond frustrating. I'm certainly sad someone died but I cannot say I blame anyone but the victim.

 

Love that different take on NPS!
Lots of discussion about this on FB and the springs site. Heck even a popular radio show host dedicated part of his weekly show discussing this story. Some of his facts weren't correct and despite having actually experienced the warm springs and he never noted the potential jeopardy of just getting to SVWS.

Yes it was a selfish and dumb thing to do. I've put a hand in the sources and I wouldn't ever consider soaking in water that hot. To chastise him for his actions seems strange to me. No one knows why he did what he did. People have been born at the springs, died at the springs, gotten married at the springs. Same as any place on earth. The source isn't infinitely contaminated and I'd be there soaking tomorrow if the stars aligned in my favor. I think I get more worked up about litter bugs and people who knowingly mess up our natural places. Would I cut off the hands of someone who defaced petroglyphs? Maybe. But I also believe in capital punishment for those proven guilty of crimes. This man isn't guilty of anything other than his poor decision making. He paid the price.

The springs are a very special place. At first I thought similar thoughts about what a SOB to have gone into the source...etc. I read the other comments. I sat back and took a moment to think things out. If our wonderful leadership (at all levels-federal, state, county, local, and businesses) had actually consulted scientists and doctors and reflected back on how other pandemics were handled in the past we might not be living in such strange times. So many knee jerk actions and reactions that have done little to halt the spread and/or deaths.

The pools IMHO should not have been closed down. I understand the rationale, especially during the busy holiday times, but had they been open for soaking this human may be alive. Maybe not. Hell I remember when the pandemic started in the US there were politicians here in CA saying that SARS-COVID-2 was spread by sea spray and that beaches must be closed. I guess leaving the pools open would have necessitated some sort of back country patrol being at Saline during the holiday rush.

In the end a human died. For those of you so adamant about closing things down to save lives the irony is that it isn't working. Our nation is hurting for many reasons and soaking in Saline will do more good than harm-IMHO! Open the springs, open the wild places, open the gyms, open businesses and restaurants.

I'm on the frontlines of this. I hear and see the effects every day at work in a major southern California hospital. I take precautions for myself, my coworkers, and my patients to help alleviate the spread best I can. I wish I could share the data we collect about this virus. It is amazing and I check it every shift. We are on the post-holiday downward trend so that's a good thing.

If anyone cares to listen to Bryan Suits and one of his weekend shows...this one regarding the aforementioned incident.
https://player.fm/series/super-hyper-local-sunday-nights-2415143/thats-the-worst-song-from-the-80s

 

It's not so much a question of why the springs are closed or even whether you support the closure but that they are closed and the guy definitely made a very bad decision. That he is chastised goes hand in hand as his decision could easily affect everyone who visits in the future.

As I said, it's unfortunate he died and I hope his poor judgement does not affect those who enjoy a soak's future enjoyment.

 

I was there during Thanksgiving and learned when I was packing up that there was a group who were camped at the very upper source, and they had been there a few days. I wonder now what the impact at the source and the immediate area are with the obvious increased visitor traffic.

 

I'll take a listen next sauna session.
As far as bathing upstream of someone else... if your going to share a tub with a bunch of people, it doesn't matter if they are next to you or upstream in my opinion, as long as they are following LNT principals. Just like at the ones on the E. Fork of the Crsn, there's a hotter pool above the main one and I only care when it's a bunch of kids mucking it up. If it was sacred to Native Americans or sensitive habitat, I'd respect it much more than a bunch of self-righteous hippies claiming what the rules are. That said, we should all respect the sensitivity of over-used areas and obey the "rules" to keep our lands open.

I'm sure the co-morbidities compounded the health affects of 105F water. Curios to see what's on the CoD

 

I'm just curious why the family wants it hidden.

 

Wilderness currency?

Oh, you mean paper maps.

 

I'm sure you'd be totally fine with your brother's cause of death plastered all over the internet, especially after the comments that have already been levied against this him, right?

It will be a matter of public record soon enough when the investigation is over, but I see no reason to give a bunch of internet heroes more fodder when all the facts aren't even known yet.

 

I'm cool with that but generally, you cannot ask for public records to be hidden and I was curious how they were able to do that.

 

The linked article stated it was an on-going investigation. It had nothing to do with the family asking for public records to be sealed. The family just chose not to reveal anything themselves.

 

I must have read something different because it distinctly said the sister had requested they not release the cause.

 

From the previous link:

"The Inyo County Coroner Office declined to provide Vanneman’s coroner’s report, citing an open investigation. Vanneman’s sister revealed the cause of Vanneman's death to SFGATE, which was quite unusual. "I had to look it up," she said. But Vanneman's sister asked that the cause not be published in this story due to the personal nature. He had problems with his heart, she added, and wrestled with bipolar disorder in his final years, she said."

 

That could certainly be a factor in making asocial decisions (e.g. not following rules) and sadly mental health care access is generally in a pitiable state. If that’s the case he probably deserves some slack as far as guessing at motives and intent goes.

 

That's true, but I'm only willing to go so far on that.

I have close personal ties with mental illness, and while it's heart breaking to see someone in the throws of a severe schizophrenic episode being carted off on a stretcher against their will, I'm also aware that despite being well regulated, this person made a conscious choice to go OFF their meds instead of talking to their doctor about the side effects. And it's not the first time, either. Seems to be about a 10 year cycle of this. He's like a goldfish.

Seeing the effects that decision process had on the family, and this time around on his wife and their kid, is nothing short of infuriating. Some of it is due to the way the mental health system sucks (I could go on for hours), but in the end, HE is responsible.

Mental illness is complicated and tragic. For everyone.

I also have people near me who suffer from depression, bipolar, and a veritable potpourri of other issues (it runs in the family, so yay!). Some are far better at dedicating themselves to recognizing the problems and seeking/maintaining help. Others aren't.

 

I’m inclined to stay out of what is a difficult and personal tragedy for the family and friends. But, speaking selfishly, in the long term I doubt there’s any real harm to SVS from what happened. Either from a public health or public policy perspective.

What’s really pissing me off right now are the comments on the Saline Valley FB page about the campground closures and re-opening, the constitutionality thereof, the involvement of the Chinese Communist Party in the closures, etc. Maybe I have no sense of humor, but there are some real whacko’s out there. And I think some of their actions do have potential to harm SVS. Thanks to the folks who frequent this thread for being rational and collegial, both by FB and TW standards. Maybe someday we’ll meet in the trails.

 

20 years from now, this whole thing will be just another part of the varied history of DV.

 

There's an SVS FB Page? God help us. That needs to be labeled a terrorist organization or something. Not to get tooooo far off-topic, but social media has blown up some cool places. TW is a gem of great knowledge and awesome people

 

Someone over on the 395 thread observed that Alabama Hills has gotten much more crowded, and littered, since about 2016 as AH became a star of social media. Looking back through some of my pictures, I realized that I haven’t been there since 2015 and had always found it quiet and not over-crowded. I mean, it’s not remote but it didn’t seem bad. I remember my first visit to Eureka Sand Dunes in 1988, and come to think of it subsequent times there in 1990 and 2010, and it was pretty empty then too. But I don’t know whether to blame social media or cheap and easy to get 4wd vehicles. We’re all part of the problem I suppose. I just wish visitors would tread more lightly ...

 

There are several actually. But only one is popular

 

Yep, the Broverlanders have pretty much ruined that place, and many others. If you take your instagram shot just right, it looks as though you're in a remote part of the world, but can probably smell the McDonald's french fries from Main St, lol.

I do giggle a little when I see some bro with a $50k TRD Pro 4Runner with racks and icon stage 4's "roughing" it in the same place I used to drive my Civic. It didn't happen if you don't hashtag it.