Gen 3 Towing Thread

New Tacoma owner and the wife decided she now wants to get a camper (again). It looks like almost every TT posted on here has to exceed the payload capacity of the trucks. Payload on our Tacoma is 1000lbs, by the time you add in passenger weight of 500lbs for the family and dog it doesn't leave much left. Seems like most single axle 16-19' trailers have a dry tongue weight of 280-430lbs range. Then you add a battery, propane tanks and a wdh and all the other essentials. It seems like a lot of people are towing the same size trailers without issue, should I not be concerned about being over payload by 100-200lbs?

 

I haul a 4,250 lb dual axel travel trailer (dry). The weight in the bed gets up there with firewood, generator, gear, passengers in the truck etc... The biggest help to towing big loads is a weight distribution hitch. It takes some of the weight off of the rear axel and transfers it up front. You can certainly dive deeper into this thread for more info regarding beefy springs, shocks and airbags. Depends on what TT you want to get.

 

We have been looking at the following.
NoBo 16.6 https://www.poulsborv.com/forest-river-nobo-16-6-s032-2/
Forest River Cascade Lite 16BHS https://www.poulsborv.com/2021-forest-river-cascade-lite-16bhs/
Forest River Cascade Lite 17JG https://www.poulsborv.com/forest-river-cascade-17jg-fcs014/

Had I known she wanted a camper again I would have considered a Tundra more when I was looking.

 

I suspect it never will...

 

There is a whole lot of information here and it's kind of hard parsing through it all. I have a 2020 TRD OR DCSB and my wife and I are looking to get a TT. Right now we camp in our home built teardrop which weighs just about nothing. We've never had a full camper so I don't know what to expect as far as weight goes and was hoping for some recommendations. I understand dry weights are underestimated, but how much would you add as an estimate? How much weight do you normally add for gear? I'm really trying to get to what sort of weight would be a realistic maximum for us to consider. We were fine with some smaller models, but found a few <25 ft trailers that have around 4300 lb dry weights listed that we like the floor plans a lot more. Would that be pushing it weight wise when fully loaded? GVWR is just higher than our 6400 lb tow rating, but I'm not sure where we would find 2000 lbs with us. We don't usually bring a ton of gear, just chairs and beer for the most part and we only weigh 250 lbs combined. I do plan on adding a good WDH and probably some Sumo Springs or something similar.

 

Congrats on your TT shopping. I hope you can figure out your comfort level before you make a purchase.

Sounds like you already know how to calculate the legal limit. The "realistic" maximum under the legal limit is subjective and depends on each individuals comfort level and their *feeling* of what is healthy for their truck.

Where will you be towing? Heading down the lower east coast is a helluva lot different than climbing the rockies.

Although the stock truck is capable of hauling a 5800 lb trailer I personally wouldn't think it's a good time. (at least not with any sort of substantial climb.)

As for estimating.. I'd add the weight of half empty fresh/gray/black water tanks (8lbs per gallon), several hundred pounds for gear (it really does add up quickly) and the weight of your passengers. You'll get all kinds of opinions here but perhaps the best thing to do is try before you buy. Ask the dealer/seller if you can hook it up and take a 20 mile drive around (find some decent terrain if possible.) Another option is renting a u-haul car trailer and tow a buddies vehicle around a while.. then see what you think.

My TT is ~2650 lbs and it really is easy to forget it's back there on flat terrain.

 

The suggestion of doing a trial run with a trailer similar to what interests you is a good one. I don't think hauling a car trailer, no matter how much you load it up, is meaningful. The wind resistance of a TT is a significant problem for the under powered Tacoma.

 

I live in northern California, so there is a it

I live in northern California, so there will be some amount of going through the Sierras. Before buying the Tacoma, I had an outback with a 2500 lb capacity and towed the teardrop with a whole bunch of gear, probably 2000 lbs all together, all the way through the Rockies out to Denver. I was plenty comfortable doing that, I just have no idea how that scales up to the size and weights I'm talking about now with this truck. I'd be interested in test towing a trailer that size, but I wouldn't think they'd let me hook up a WDH and all that. I guess I could ask, though.

 

Wind is a real enemy. I pull a Forest River 2109. Previously a 2104s. They are around the same total weight. But the 2109, which does not have a murphy bed in the front has about 100 lbs less hitch weight. Significant relative to payload.

AND....the 2104s was about a foot taller; catching a LOT more wind. The 2109 is much more comfortable to pull; the 2104s was MUCH more comfortable in a week long rain storm. I'm fine with either with less than 100 miles in the Ozarks @ 1000-3200'. But I'm not sure I'd want to do the Rockies as part of a much longer trip with either. Plenty people here do so, apparently without issue.

Much comes down to your comfort level and that is likely relative to your experience and/or concerns about you and others safety. It likely also comes down to how far you will be traveling. Or maybe how much time you spend inside vs outside. Consider carefully the longest, hardest (elevation change, wind, traffic) trip ever.

It is very surprising how easily you can get to "2000 lbs". BUT....that 2000 ignores "max" payload. I don't know what it is for your specific truck, but it's not 2000. Maybe around 1200. Subtract your combined weight = 950. Don't gain any or have a child/get a pet!

Then subtract hitch weight (including the weight of the heavy WDH. You are now have about 450 lbs remaining. Now add dishes, tools, axe, chairs, any outdoor tables, lanterns, bedding, toiletries, hoses, recovery gear if you off-road, etc. I'm sure you get the point. You know.....much of the gear you had in the teardrop.

This is not meant to deter you, as again many, including me, travel with these weights. But you'll be much happier during the actual traveling part of your trips the lighter you go. If my wife didn't absolutely require more storage or we went on longer trips I might be looking at something like a Geo Pro or some of the other lighter weight alternatives.

Further food for thought: I'm not sure which Outback you had, but my wife's 3.6 has 256/247 horsepower/torque; the Tacoma 278/265. The Tacoma certainly stops better, with a brake controller and WDH. The Subaru is much more fun to drive on pavement with a pop-up.

Good luck and let us know what you decide, and later how it goes....

 

Thanks, I really appreciate your info and I don't mind even if you were trying to deter me, I'd rather be deterred from a bad idea than encouraged into it. I only included that tidbit about the Rockies to say that I've at least experience tough towing conditions. I hope to never drive there again, and if I do, it won't be with a trailer. That was just a silly add on to our honeymoon in Utah because the Great American Beer Festival happened to be going on in Denver the same week. Honestly, most of our camping is within 100 miles of home and we might make the occasional trip 2-300 miles out. The places within 100 miles are usually uphill in the Sierras, anything outside of that distance is mostly going to be flat. The Sierras are much easier to pass than the Rockies, but there is still some elevation.

And, I had the little 2.5i that could, and my teardrop has no brakes, but I never had any issues with it. It didn't love crossing the 14ers, but managed it just fine. I was always very cautious with the teardrop, exceedingly so downhill. I've towed it a few times with the Tacoma and it doesn't even feel like it's there, though it does hurt the mpgs a little bit.

 

My Tacoma Towing Experience

In December of 2018 I bought a GeoPro 19FBS.
3200 dry weight/3800 loaded/tongue weight was higher because I opted for two 30lb propane instead of 20's.

Tow-helping mods: Toyota tow package, Tekonsha P3, sway bar, WDH, Dakar springs, 4.88 gears, OVTune with gearlock, CAI and exhaust

I absolutely loved the Geopro. The perfect size for 1-2 people (no pets/kids). I outfitted it with a Nature's Head toilet, 300 watts of solar, upgraded solar charger, 200ah of lithium Battle Born batteries, and a number of other upgrades and mods. Again, I loved it. I actually lived in it for about 3 months just for the hell of it when my lease ended on my apartment. Parked it behind the diesel shop I worked at. Not having rent was absolutely amazing. I recommend everyone try it at least once.

This was the day I picked it up in Shipeshewana Indiana:



I then drove it back to San Antonio, TX where I live. I bought it up there at the RV wellspring of the USA because even with the travel expenses, I still saved close to $1000 and got a nice road trip out of it. I slept in Walmart parking lots on the way home.

During that 1300 mile trek back to TX was the first time I began to think I might have made a mistake, and when I also became relieved that I did not go with my initial desire to purchase the heavier, bigger Rockwood Mini Lite which is about 4200 dry, 5000lb fully loaded.

Now, first off, there are plenty of people who tow 5000lbs of wind-resisting travel trailer with their Tacoma's and are fine with it. Personally I think they're in a type of denial, but that's just me

Driving the GeoPro even empty at 3200 lbs was an intense chore for the Tacoma. Living in 3rd and 4th gear netted me an average 8-9mpg and the drivability went way down - further than I had anticipated. Going uphills trying to maintain 60mph with semi's jamming past was a little nerve wracking because I would always end up on their tails or passing them shortly after (many semis are speed governed at or under 70mph) only to have them pass me again on the next substantial hill. I learned to maintain a snail's pace (55-65 hills/flats) for fuel economy and drivability. This is where the main thing about Tacoma towing comes in - PERSONALITY TYPE.

Let me explain - if you are the type of person who truly couldn't give two krapz about anyone else on the road, and are a very patient and easy going driver with a care-free attitude, then the towing limitations of the Tacoma will be much less of a burden.
I do not mind a slow pace while driving TO my campsite - that's part of the trip and enjoyable with all the excitement of getting out in the woods or mountains, out in nature where I'd pretty much always rather be, BUT, on the way home I just kinda want to be home to clean up all the gear and get it stowed away - I am a cursed neat-freak/organization type who at times can be impatient with myself and other people when the fun is over and I'm heading back into the everyday boredom of life-before-retirement. Basically, you're leaving where you'd rather be, dragging 3800lbs and getting crappy mpg, thinking about all the cleaning and stowing of gear that lies ahead of you just before you have to go back to work. (personality type)

Often while towing, you will be on a two lane road. You will have 4000lbs behind you, you'll have a 20mph headwind relegating you to 55mph, the ever present whine of high RPM's and 7-8mpg, and quite possibly a line of pissed off drivers behind you - I am cursed with empathy (see again personality type). It's very frustrating to know people are behind you, most likely kinda pissed because they're not on vacation and simply want to drive the 70 mph speed limit, while you are struggling to maintain 55mph.
NOTE: In Texas, highway and interstate (and even many regular old country roads) speed limits are almost always 70-80mph.

Those are the main things about towing that can really rain on the parade.
The actual campsite experience is aces!

In the end the abysmal tow experience ended up being too much for me. I ended up selling the GeoPro in June of 2020 and getting this:



Rockwood 1040ESP (this past December at Chisos Basin Campground, Big Bend national park)
2100lbs fully loaded and a low tow profile, 14-17mpg - none of the issues with towing the GeoPro.
I have fixed the factory shortcomings and shoddy workmanship that almost all RV's come with, just like I did with my GeoPro.

If you (or anyone reading this) are thinking about an RV towed with your Tacoma, I highly recommend researching pop-up's.
Main reason - it's the wind resistance more than the weight that decreases both fuel economy and drivability. This is why you get guys saying they tow their boats or their wood-filled utility trailers with no problem even though the weight is comparable to a travel trailer. Towing 4000lbs of low(er) profile pop up/boat/utility trailer is very different from towing 4000lbs of travel trailer.

There are some incredible pop ups/A-frames out there (Somerset, A-liner). Almost all can have factory A/C and heat. Many have toilets and if you need a shower, there are many propane options out there. More like camping anyway! Obviously, they are not as home-away-from-home as a travel trailer will be, but they aren't that far from it.
There are pros and cons just like anything else.

Hopefully this sets someone on the right path to an informed purchase. If you really want a big travel trailer, get one and enjoy the hell out of it

Just maintain realistic expectations!

 

@Phich you are right about the wind resistance. I been a pop up owner for years. I'm on my second used one. While I have yet to pull it with my Tacoma I've pulled my Pop ups all over the east and south east with my old Liberty. I've met others over the years with Liberties (gas and a few diesel like mine was) towing small travel trailers. They usually said they got bad mpg and towing was just not very comfortable. Smaller tow vehicles are effected more by wind resistance than bigger trucks. With a lower trailer I never had any complaints. You always loose some mpg towing but never single digits there.

I'd definitely stay with popups a-liners and teardrops. In my opinion it's just easier to tow and the smaller lower profile is also easier to store when not camping.

 

AND.........

Anyone pulling anything should check the speed rating of their trailer tires *. They are likely ST (Special Trailer). Most of the tires delivered on the campers mentioned in this thread are rated for 62-65 mph. That sounds absurd, right? But it's true. I'm going to guess that about 1/2 of the people that just read that are muttering obscenities at me under their breath right now.

"That's BS!".
"I don't want to be the guy slowing up traffic!"
"That's for those 'old farts'!"
"I've got to get home!"
"It's less safe to drive 65 when the traffic flow is 75".

Please do some research/reading. Yes, there ARE (notable) exceptions. But be sure your tires are.

I'd say, "ignore at your own risk", but there are others on the road. I see far too many people, passing me at 75--85. Today's tires, operated within the designed specifications bear little resemblance to 30 years ago. But they will overheat and fail when operated outside of their design limits.

* Make sure to check your tire pressure before each pull. Pressure needed is relative to load, but in most cases you are safer running the tire at max pressure shown on the tire supplied with your camper.

 

I know the one guy wrote a book a couple comments up but it is pretty spot on. I CAN tow our TT with my Taco, but with my lift and 33/s and no re-gear, even at 2850 dry it's comfortable right up until I hit a head wind, then its unnerving to have it hang in 3rd gear even at 55MPH. North Georgia mountains I was getting like 5 MPG. I am fine with driving slow in the right lane of the super slab but two lane roads; the line of pissed off people piles up quickly. Since we mostly stick to Florida I can't justify a Tundra so I'm good. I wouldn't even fathom the Rockies...To each their own on towing with the TACO

 

Also pay attention to the dates on your trailer tires. It's easy to think they are still good because lots of tread. Old tires will blow out at even 65mph. Ask me how I learned that lesson the hard way years back.
If you have a trailer that is a few years old or one you got used pay mind to that. Don't take for granted if you by a used RV from a dealership they made sure the tires were all good. Nope camping world harrisburg sent me home on 8 year old tires and I had to replace them before the first trip.

 

Any of you guys pay attention to your transmission temperatures while towing these beasts?

I just towed my 2500lb UTV/trailer combo to NE AZ (from 1000ft up to 7400ft) and didn’t break 65 mph downhill or 60mph uphill. Lots of rolling hills. 3rd and 4th gear on anything with an incline or flats with a headwind. Sport mode and ECT. 5th and 6th gear on downhills.

Tried hard to keep the temps down and yet it reached 221f. It was (sub 54f outside) with the trans thermostat pinned open. I pinned it open because before doing so, I saw it reach 218f driving around town on flat ground (in the mid 60s). This is because the thermostat tries to keep the transmission around 192-195 and the torque converter temp can climb 20 degrees on a few seconds. Can’t imagine what you guys towing 4000 + lb TT’s uphill are doing to your transmission temps.

Long story short, if you are towing anything over a couple thousand pounds with a Tacoma, you need to add a larger transmission cooler, at a minimum. Or change your transmission fluid very often.

 

6MT lyfe.

 

I feel your pain. I have had temps over that, with a secondary transmission cooler that is at least 4 times the size of the stock one. it doesn't really keep the temps down while climbing hills, but as soon as you set off the gas, the temps drop back near 200 in seconds. I've just changed my fluid more often too (which is not cheap).

 

Dude, those bikes are fucking rad.

 

Right on man, 94 DR 350 and 94 DR 125 with a big bore kit. Both plated in CA.