How much power would you run to a JL 13W7

I am sure my normal installer shop guys know waaaay more than me about car audio, but they are insistent that I run a new 13W7 at a minimum of 1500 watts. I personally think a RD1500/1 @ 3ohms would be well sufficient, but they are communicating to me that I am going to underpower the sub and eventually kill it. I can't see how this would be the case, as I feel I could run the sub at 750 watts if I really wanted to (though I'm not doing that). Is there any merit to their concerns?

 

You can’t kill a sub by under powering it. That would happen every time we turn the volume down.

The idea came from when people would run a small amp to a sub that’s over it’s ratings. But guys would adjust the gain on the small amp to give it more power.


from crutchfield...

Underpowering a subwoofer isn’t inherently bad for the sub. Not giving it enough power just means that the music will sound weak and lack detail.

The danger is when that power is coming from an amplifier that's being overworked and sending out a clipped signal. The clipped signal tries to make the sub do things it's not designed to do, which leads to it tearing itself apart or overheating and burning out.

 

You need to find new normal shop installer guys lol.

They’re just trying to sell you a more expensive amp and more expensive wiring

 

Literally off of the JL page for this product:

"Our most potent Subwoofer is best used with amplifier power in the 500W - 1500W range"

That said, this thing about underpowering subs...

This is what happens. The amp/sub combo isn't inherently bad or good. It's that there are many who have "underpowered" a subwoofer and set the system up wrong to suit their taste after not buying enough amplifier to satisfy what they really wanted. Which is why I hate it so much when someone starts out with "I just want..." but they are lying through their teeth. What they really want is to get away cheap, not "a little bump." It doesn't look to me like you are trying to get away cheap in this situation.

Barring user error, ignorance, or abuse, you can run any amplifier on a given subwoofer and have no fear of blowing it up as a direct consequence of equipment selection. This would be one of those situations.

RD1500/1 - Monoblock Class D Subwoofer Amplifier, 1500 W x 1 @ 1 - 2 Ω / 750 W x 1 @ 4 Ω - 14.4V

At 3 Ohms you will be running somewhere between 750W and 1500W, maybe 1100W? Just don't turn the amp all the way up because you are underwealmed by the performance of your $1500 subwoofer. Frankly, I don't see a JL amplifier I would use with this subwoofer if I was determined to use it in a system. Even more frankly, I wouldn't use this subwoofer.

Yeah, they don't trust you. They think you'll go home and twist some knobs, and run a square wave into the sub driver. It's a consequence of their dealings with all of the "I just want" people and unfortunately, you've been lumped in.

 

Thanks, for the input. They're really pushing for me to get a Sound Digital amp. They seem to always push that brand hard, but they're not JL dealers so it's not like they'd want me to buy JL anyway. Sad thing is I go there for installs, and don't have a problem paying for labor. They're making money off me either way.

 

I totally get that there are customers that are dicks are want to come back to the shop to raise hell for anything. I already paid my local guys $2500 for a basic audio upgrade to this truck:

• JLB Stadium GTO 600c & GTO 620 (off Rockford 400watt 4-way)
  
• JBL Fuse (off Sound Digital 400watt powering both 8"s)
• Rewiring my dumb SR Utility access doors for the GTO 620
  
• Sound deadening all doors

They told me I wouldn't be happy with the outcome before they did the job (I figured my under-seat subs would be sufficient for my wants). They were right I wasn't thrilled with the bump after the install (not their fault), but in terms of SQ, the system sounds great! Just not enough lows for me to be happy.

They suggested I put a P500 Rockford in the back and that should make me happy, but I had already been kinda bummed about the first round, and I decided I wasn't going to be happy with a single 12. I wants some 20hz looow looow bass, so they were looking at a custom build, but ended up asking me if I'd be interested in a Memphis Vive14s1. That would have probably worked, but it's dimensions for an Access Cab would have looked real wonky after mounted.

So I ended up calling our man Mr. Marv and getting a custom 12" enclosure. When talking with Marv and letting him know how stupid low I wanted my bass, he called the JL guys for their thoughts and they said either 2 12w6s sealed or a 13w7 sealed. But I decided I wanted the 13w7 ported because... why not I guess? I kicked back at my local guys because they kept pushing me towards more power (the Memphis wants like 3500 watts) and I'm not looking to add an extra alternator and 2 batteries. I will pay for what I want, but I'm not looking to get into competition audio. I wanted the 13w7 because it is power efficient and will supposedly give me my <30hz port tuning.

If you had to choose a sub, what would you have gone with (out of curiosity, because I'm already bought and locked through Marv so I'm not changing). I kinda went overboard because I really don't want to be disappointed after this job. I want that giddy "dayum!" bass available again.

 

I like jl audio stuff. I would go for 2-12w6

 

It warms my heart to see someone else who really understands clipping.

This topic pops up every now and again. For anyone curious what a square wave is or how clipping is damaging to a speaker. Here's a brief rundown on it that I wrote probably 12 years ago.

 

To answer the OP though....what are your goals for the setup? A W7 is a VERY deep sub (like 10.5" deep) so your enclosure will need to be that deep+ probably another 2.5" or so. That can be pretty challenging in a Tacoma unless you don't need your back seat for anything. I also feel like the W7 (although a good woofer) is far FAR more money than I think it's worth. Those things are crazy expensive.

 

I use that guide myself, but I've been told by the guru's that it's BS and a way for JL to sell amps because of the broader power ranges. I don't tend to agree, but I'm no seasoned stereo vet over here.

 

Dude just ask Marv what amp to run. I’d love to run a W7 as it just seems soo cool but I’m a double cab and I need my back seats. I run 2 13TW5’s in mine

 

So $1500 for a single sub is a bit insane to my budget, and I do feel a bit dumb spending that much... but I've had sooo many cheapy subs in my life. I figured I'd give the gold standard a try once in my life. I honestly think the 2 W6s would have been a better pairing, but there were a few factors. For one, I have VERY limited space in my access cab, so I was going to have to have a custom box built. That was going to cost me, and then the installation with custom mounting was going to cost me, so I started to view this as a one time shot to get what I want. When I started to feel like that, I decided to go with the most I could budget, so I don't leave disappointed. Marv have been insanely accommodating, and helped me along the way. He was in alignment with you that a 12w6 would get me where I want, but JL recommended 2 for our end goal, or 1 13W7. I decided on 1 sub for no other reason than it seemed like the king of subs per all the reviews I read about it's ability to go low. Also, it uses less power than some of the other competitor large form-factor subs.

My end goal is getting the kind of palpable (chest thumping) bass I want, at volumes low enough to prevent tinnitus. And at this point, to also make my friends think I'm having a mid-life crisis due to the insane costs I incurred getting here...

 

For sure, Marv has me sorted! This is just a thread to discuss why my local installers are always pushing for max juice to the rated specs.

I was going to go with the 13TW5s but I wanted a ported box, and it seems those work much better in a sealed box. I recently took my passengers seat out to flip a crossbar (so I could fit my underseat subs in all the way), and once I saw the space with that seat out I almost left it out. I could put an insane box in that open space, at the sacrifice of having a one-seater truck, lol. I think if I had a double-cab, I'd definitely remove at least one side of the back seats and use that space for something insane.

 

Always overbuild is my motto, Cause otherwise you’ll end up ripping it out if you don’t like it.

 

Hahaha I’ve thought about taking the smaller side out but ehh I’m happy with the 2 TW5’s since it’s still all behind the rear seats

 

Short answer - if you run anything less than 1,500rms to a W7, you are wasting money buying a W7. They are amazing subs but they can be finicky to get right.

First thing to remember is that all things equal - the W7 is kind of a different animal than all other subs. That shop better know how to build a box for it or it’s gonna sound like dogpoop. The W7 fits in a weird space where it’s a sound quality heavy sub that can take an absolute ton of power and give really high SPL numbers if wanted.
All that said - I didn’t read every reply but if no one has mentioned headroom yet on an amp, they’ve never correctly setup a high end up.
My advice is if you are set on a W7 - shoot for an amp that has an RMS rating about 200-400 watts above the max (so something that’s 2000w RMS at 2ohms. This will allow you to keep the gain low on the amp and do two things - 1 it will give you a much wider volume range (meaning it won’t be no sound at volume 5 and then full woofer woofing at volume 15). The other will be that you can keep the distortion levels low because the gain setting won’t have to be crazy.
In my last setup I ran an Alpine Type R 10 (rated at 500rms) with a Sundown Audio SFB1500 (1,500 RMS at 1ohm - sub was a dual 2ohm sub wired at 1ohm). It would absolutely pound but would keep up with any music your three at it. I ran that sub like that for 6 years and my friend who bought the car from me still has it set up that way and has never heard the least bit of rattle from the voicecoil.
You can always turn the power down if you need to but you want to avoid having to “crank it up” if you can help it. You’re whole system will also run cooler if you aren’t trying to push your amp to the limits.

That’s my 2 cents.

 

I would recommend this based on both power rating and how rock freaking solid my Sundown Amp was while still sounding crystal clear. I haven’t kept up with the industry but they have also been known for under-rating their amps by quote a bit.
I’d go with something like this: https://sundownaudio.com/lv/sa/amplifiers/sfb-series/sfb-3000d/

 

i also run a 13TW5 sealed with a 500/1, 2 ohm. last install i had 2 10W7s in a heavy sealed box and it was so good. the 13TW5 was a fitment compromise, because i wanted the 10W7s in there but that's wasn't possible with fitment. the sound compromise was that, if i couldn't get the crazy low from a full sized sub, at least i could maximize the punch effect with the 13TW5 and keep a functional rear seat.

compromises are compromises, but would do again. i also happen to have both 10W7s and their sealed box available for sale.

 

Morbid curiosity... how much?