Steering/Alignment Issues?

Stock springs. Measured lift is 1.75. Bilstein manual says 1.55 so ~1.65.

 

Ok so you compressed the stock spring giving you the lift. Not the way most do it I think. Might ride a little harsh. Anyways, he definitely didn't touch the cam bolts which adjust the caster/camber. Those absolutely need to be adjusted then, after getting those in spec, the toe will be out so then that will need to be adjusted again.

 

Yeah, was trying to keep it budget friendly and didn’t need a lot of lift. Definitely not what most do. Doesn’t moving the clip/perch on the shock effectively lengthen the shock pushing the lower control arm further down which creates the lift while keeping the spring close to the same? Rides really good though. If anything I would say better but really would be splitting hairs.
Thanks for the info. I’ll take it to him and see what he says. Guy seemed Real nice and had his own shop so I would think he would be willing to work with me.

 

My response was meant for OP. His seems to be holding alignment anywhere from 10-50 miles...thus, loose cam bolts.

On yours, other than low caster, nothing really stands out to me.
Understand, alignment is a static measurement. When driven, dynamic forces and bushing deflection should put your positive toe and positive camber to zero...if you have stock wheels/tires.

 

Yes, that's exactly what it does. But you've still put a lot more compression on spring to push that control arm down, which, by the way, is what is giving you that positive "looking" camber. Those readings just don't translate to what I think I see. Looks more like a 1.5 degrees positive camber. 2D pictures can be deceiving though.

 

Yup, that makes sense. And yea, I would say the pictures definitely make it look worse but the reason I took them is because it is definitely noticeable by the eyeball test

 

Just to be clear, .6° of camber shouldn’t really be noticeable or certainly not look the way my truck does right? I’m bringing it back in there tomorrow. I asked him if he thought it looked like that was .6° and he said yeah. I don’t know how many vehicles I’ve seen on the road in my life but the only ones that look like that are rigsthat are totally modded out and not really worried about drivability on the road.

 

As I said, it looks like more than half a degree. Take a few more pictures of only one wheel. Maybe one from the top down. Or you can take it to another shop and get a second opinion and one that just wont "Set the toe and let it go" They absolutely did not touch the cam bolts because neither caster nor camber changed, only toe. Caster and camber had to change because you lifted 1.75". There's just no arguing that.

 

I didn't read a lot of the response to the second guys print out so apologies if I duplicate responses.

First, you can not eyeball camber. It just isn't possible and even if you could, when you look at it on street, the angles on the street could be much different because of suspension bind from a number of factors. When those measurements are taken, they are taken and adjusted with your tires on turn plates. Essentially sitting on a plate of ball bearings that allow the suspension to move freely so you can see the true static measurements. Also point to note is that camber will not cause tire wear unless very extreme and you won't see that for thousands and thousands of miles.

Caster is what causes a pull or a drift. The closer to zero the more likely you are to experience wander. You are constantly correcting it. A pull is caused by a difference in caster left to right usually of more than 1 degree. In this case caster is low, but higher on the right. You usually want the right to be slightly higher than the left to counter road crown. That is what I am seeing with this print out. Personally I would want more caster, but with your lift, it probably is maxed out.

Toe is measured as a total. You have .09 degrees of positive toe. This means that your tires point inward slightly. This is what you want. When you drive, it should open from being pushed and you are going nice and straight down the road.

 

Exactly. How do I lift it 1.75 and nothing on the driver side needs to be adjusted?

 

I would say that it drives straight. So you are saying that nothing looks abnormal in the pictures? Or if it does it may be due to other factors and not the camber because that is not able to be seen by eyeball.

 

Or is there anything that can throw off alignment numbers? I am bringing it back today. Appreciate the input.

 

Nothing looks abnormal to me. I am looking exclusively at your print out. We are talking fractions of degrees which is impossible to spot with the naked eye. Even if you could, it would be near impossible since you have nothing to visually measure off of. Way too many things to distract your eye which is why these machines are necessary. They are incredibly accurate and unless out of calibration will provide near exact measurements.

 

The only thing that would throw the numbers off would be if the machine is out of calibration. That is possible, but highly unlikely. The new machines are self calibrating and no tech would want to use a machine that isn't working properly because all that work would come right back. Keep in mind, you are aligning on a machine that is specifically designed to allow you to adjust and see the adjustments. The key to this are the turn plates that your front tires sit on.

Let me try to explain it in a way that might make more sense. There is a reason that you don't do an alignment on pavement. You get bind because the tires won't slide on the ground. That is what the turn plates allow. It frees the suspension. Imagine if you had one foot firmly planted on ground that is turned in at a 45 degree angle. If you wanted to straighten it, it would take great force to get is straight and even if you were to drag it, it may not completely straighten. Now you put that foot on ice and you can easily move it back and forth until you get it straight. Muscle memory keeps it straight however, you can turn it back 45 degrees and if it is back on pavement with your weight and not moving, it might look out of alignment, but if you free it, it should snap back.

Here is a video that gives you an idea of how they work. When you drive on, they are locked with the pins. This is similar to being on pavement. Your suspension binds. You pull the pins and you free it. The effect of standing on ice.

 

In those new pictures is looks fine. The specs for camber on our trucks go more positive than negative which is probably to allow for suspension flex. As I said before, they didn't touch your cam bolts. I'm sure you can get more caster then what you have now and get it well into spec.

 

Brought it in today for an adjustment. Final numbers were much better.
How does the driver side caster go from 1.45 when I left last time to -1.37 when I got there? Moved almost 3° in 2 weeks and less than 100 miles? I am super easy on it when driving on road. Didn’t drive on any rough roads or potholes or anything like that. And when I left toe was good but when I came back not.
Also, Not sure exactly for what reason but definitely a noticeable difference when looking from the front. Just looks right now. Maybe just me.

 

You are reading it wrong. Your caster reading went from 1.45 to 1.37. That is a difference of .09 of a degree. That is not significant. Could be the difference in a few gallons of gas between checks. The adjustments are very slight. There is no chance you will notice that. It is more of a mental adjustment than a physical adjustment. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We all do it. The important thing is that the numbers are correct and you are at peace with it. Hats off to the shop for making it right.

 

Gotcha. I see what you’re saying. I don’t know how I was reading that wrong. Yeah that’s a tiny difference. The guy did a great job. Thanks again for the insights!

 

I can see how it happens. I am no fan of the Hoffman print out. It is confusing to me but that is probably because I mostly see Hunter print outs. I also don't like that it doesn't show total toe before and only shows the after. In any case, what matters more is the guy with the wrench and it looks like he fine tuned what was already in spec. Many shops would have said it was good and sent you on your way.