3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Wear a pair of yellow lensed sunglasses in rain/snow/foggy conditions (in the daytime of course). You’ll get a similar improvement in visibility without the tickets.

 

Nah, filtering the lightsource is the patricians choice.

 

That's because blue light triggers greater pupil constriction than longer wavelengths, and for a longer duration after the stimulus is removed. Of course, the owner of those lights has little issue because the vast majority of objects on the road are reflecting very little of it back or are reflecting diffusely. But anyone on the receiving end of the focused beam experiences severe glare and loses vision more severely than with longer wavelengths.

The pupil constriction stimulated by blue light is why 5000k+ color temps are useful for task lighting, improving optical clarity similar to a pinhole camera. But overall luminance levels are orders of magnitude higher in task lighting, and the lighting level is steady. In nighttime driving, the overall luminance level is quite low in the environment, so even a momentary exposure to a focused beam of high-energy blue-rich LED or HID light can cause a severe loss of dark vision for other drivers.

Human vision cannot focus on blue as well, either. Ever tried to read blue text on black from a distance, or even on a computer monitor? It's nowhere near as easy as red or green. When you get your eyes checked, the optometrist calibrates the prescription between red and green, which refract a bit differently through the eye, but blue is not included.

I have encountered vehicles with factory LED lights a few times on a particular narrow winding road where the beam pointed straight into my eyes, necessitating a stop due to momentary blindness. I haven't had nearly the issue with halogens. The intensity is part of it, but it's also the high-energy spectral content.

I mean, if blue light is so good for night driving, why not 8000k or 12000k?

Selective yellow works very well for a reason. You don't need copious amounts of high-energy deep-blue light to see well on the road. The blue emission spike in the 450nm range is characteristic of current mass-produced white LEDs that use a blue chip coated in yellow phosphor, and less phosphor equals more blue, higher lumens per watt (but not necessarily better vision), and lower cost. A little more phosphor would go a long way toward improving ergonomics. (There are LEDs that emit a more even visible spectrum via fluorescence from UV for improved color rendering, but they have lower quantum efficiency.)

 

Nope, never participated in MB boards. BMW, VW, Jeep, Toyota, but never MB.

Glare is now included in factoring headlight safety ratings. But what isn't yet included is color temp. Glare from a 6000k+ LED light source is significantly more harmful than glare from a 3000k halogen light source, yet the safety ratings do not currently make this distinction. I'd like to see the ratings to reflect the actual affect on oncoming drivers rather than just an abstract lux value independent of color temperature.

 

Finally my head light mod is complete. Thanks to Leo again. @Customretrofitheadlights. This is my second retrofit he has done on the same lights.
Thanks to @Kairide and @TacoFergie for helping me put together my list and give me confidence to go with the build.

Leo did a dual projector retrofit. RX350s for Low/High and also separate HighBeam projectors and custom Graphite shrouds.
Changed Fog lamps to DD SS3 Sport Driving White

1. Bi-Xenon: Lexus RX350 STi Lens
Lexus RX350 Bi-Xenon Projectors: 2 X Bi-Xenon: Lexus RX350 (Non-AFS) (LHD) $290.00
Clear Lens Upgrade: 2 X Lens: STi-R
2. D2S: Osram Xenarc Cool Blue Intense
3. Diode Dynamics White (Driving) Sport lights as fogs. $220
4. High Beam: Morimoto Mini HB LED Projectors
5. Mini Graphite Shrouds: 2 × Mini Graphite (Black Series) Shrouds
6. Meso dual switch back side markers
7. Custom smoked LED acrylic lens
8. Diode Dynamics Switchback LED DRLs with Turn light functionality. (replace Meso DRL)
9. KC Lites, Cyclone LED - 2-Light Universal Under Hood Lighting System - 5W Flood Beam (for under the hood)


My pictures don't do justice because of the glare, but I will get better pictures later and post them.

 

I don’t know what any of that means but it sounds like a lot of work. Was it worth it?

 

Looks good, glad it all turned out well

 

Totally, I was on stock headlights until now. I’d you read back my comments in this thread you will get the full picture.

 

Lots of work in that setup. Why go with the Cool Blue Intense HIDs? And why the Driving lights for fogs with so much high beam power already?

 

A ton of work indeed. Very expensive too, especially when new OEM and Pro's and other aftermarket solutions available these days.
Before I did anything, I came here and asked for advice from others and everyone suggested RX350s. While my retrofitter himself has Morimoto projectors, which has a much more sharper cut off angle, and sharp lines, I got my RX350 projectors tuned. and wanted to stick with the standard and legend. I got the STi Clear lens Non AFS RX350 projectors
Why CBI? I felt CBI has a good lumen rating that was a good balance. It's not too blue and not too bright and warm like the Xenarc NightBreaker Laser which is a very warm-ish/bright. CBA or Cool blue advanced has a Kelvin rating of 6000K and very bluish white.. Where as CBI has Kelvin rating of 4200K, and a bright white with a small bluish/purplish tinge that is easy on the eye. Neither too warm nor too blue.
Warm light from Nightbreaker while very bright indeed, but can be fatiguing. So I had to settle for a color temperature that is easy on my eyes.
Why are my Fogs are driving lights/high beam SS3s, because I wanted a nice throw of white light from closer to the ground down range. High beams from headlights/projectors (you know, I have dual high beam projectors), tend to create an intense hot spot down range and diffuse light everywhere, where as the SS3's light up the entire ground from source all the way to the bottom of the hotspot created by the high beam projectors above.
When in High beam mode, the fog lamps cut off anyway. When in low beam, my SS3 driving lights light up downrange neatly and sharply complementing my low beams without blinding anybody.
Why too much high beam power (dual high beams). I like long road trips, and was recently on a road trip to New Mexico. Sometimes for hours and hours on end, I was the only vehicle on the road. Cutting through the night and getting good light output was an important safety matter I learned.
Finally, Why no fogs? I want to add an all amber light bar eventually, and I didn't want to put amber fogs at my fog lamp locations. My Amber light bar which is coming will act as my fog lamps instead.

 

Hell ya!! Looks great!! Luckily if you do ever change your mind on any of the components, you can easily swap the bulb or lens on the driving lights. This is a great setup because it's reliable, amazing output and completely serviceable! Good job man!!

 

No offense, but your choices here seem a bit... off.

>RX350 projectors w/tuned lenses
Seems like a great option for a D2S bi-xenon setup.

>Morimoto LED highbeam
Doesn't seem like it's going to add much to your highbeam. What #'s I've seen attributed to this high beam unit across HIDPlanet/youtube testing seems like it has a fairly limited pattern and fairly low peak intensity level, meaning not much reach. I can't imagine it's very noticeable compared to the highbeam from your rx350's on high beam.

>preferring higher color temp
Again, there's a very good body of testing that shows that lightsources that are heavy on the blue spectrum (which would include a 4300k HID) cause eye strain and the blue spike of their spectrum down regulates the red and green rods and cones in your eye, reducing perception and increasing reaction time. I hear what you're saying based on your experiences with other lamps/burners, but it seems fairly backwards.

Intensity is the most important thing for sight, so obviously a high performance light is going to be more useful to see with than a low performance light, but all else being close (close because we don't perceive light linearly) color spectrum can come into play as well. My personal, subjective experience makes me really appreciate selective yellow as a superior choice for night driving, be it urban or rural, preferable over clear/white halogen, as long as the lightsource doesn't experience a significant drop in output due to filtering. HID is, by nature, going to have a pretty choppy spectrum, and Crash's testing shows this in this thread pretty clearly with the XD and rebased Phillips burners. HID isn't as bad as LED's blue spike, but the effect is still the same.

>Why are my Fogs are driving lights/high beam SS3s, because I wanted a nice throw of white light from closer to the ground down range. High beams from headlights/projectors (you know, I have dual high beam projectors), tend to create an intense hot spot down range and diffuse light everywhere, where as the SS3's light up the entire ground from source all the way to the bottom of the hotspot created by the high beam projectors above.

Seems like you're saying you're running these with your low beams?

>When in High beam mode, the fog lamps cut off anyway. When in low beam, my SS3 driving lights light up downrange neatly and sharply complementing my low beams without blinding anybody.

Yeah, I would be concerned that unless you're quite diligent about not using your driving-"fogs" with any traffic, that you're causing glare for oncoming traffic even if it may not appear that way. Glare isn't just up-light above whatever horizontal cutoff a lamp has, too intense a light reflected off the street can cause glare for traffic as well.

I really think you would be better served with the fog light optics in these lamps. They're the pro's, so they're going to have a wider/taller beam with a softer cutoff than either the SPort/Max pods, and they'll still fulfill your goal of extra foreground light/wider reach without reaching the peak intensity levels that will cause excessive glare for oncoming traffic or diminishing your ability to see objects at a distance. This is the balancing act that must be built into low beams - sufficient flux throughout the beam for low speed driving in tight spaces, balanced with limiting this foreground light so that your pupils arent overly constricted and reducing the ability to see objects at a distance as speed. Additionally, you're saying the cutoff of your driving lights reaches up to this high beam hot spot, they're aimed too low to add to your distance vision for the highbeam (not that they're on) and they're adding significant amounts of light to the light in the foreground when your low beams are activated.

>amber lightbar for fogs instead

Fogs are really intended for low speed (<20mph) driving in poor conditions. A bright lightbar with the fog pattern may not be the best option for that use. In extreme fog, too much light is just as bad as not enough, even in monochromatic amber or selective yellow with a good cutoff. Again, just putting the fog optics in your SS3's, or getting another set of selective yellow SS3's will likely be more useful, especially if used correctly with your low beams.

You sunk a lot of money into this set up, but the bulb selection and driving light use really is working against you.

 

I joined this forum solely because of this discussion. I drive a 2020 charger scatpack with halogen projectors. Since i bought it i have been on a mission to find an acceptable light bulb to live with. The car came with a 9005sl+ which was a disappointment. I have tried many led’s from Amazon. All had different pros and cons. I am now on the fence about getting some 9011’s. It was explained in this thread about clocking the led chips at 9 & 3 oclock but no other specifics. I know that for the hikari ultras the thinnest part by the chips is supposed the point up. Did you do that crashnburn80?

btw i am addicted to all of this info thanks to your work.

 

Yes, that is how they are supposed to be. I’m pretty sure he didn’t cut corners

 

well i didnt know anyone else who bought them knew that. I never seen it brought up.

 

Because most people are bros and just want to stick lights in thinking it’s better

 

i dont think youre picking up on what im saying

 

I have these cougar leds that look extremely similar to the Hikari ultra’s

 

they dont have the same cut out above the chips or a externel canbus driver.

these are extremely similar to hikari ultras.
NINEO 9005 HB3 LED Bulbs - CREE Chips - Halogen Replacement 6500K Extremely Bright All-in-One Conversion Kit,360 Degree Adjustable Beam Angle | Fog light https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JCSRS7H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_RFRVPW5RWT4E3TC1MK9Q

 

Forget replacement LEDs. If you have 9005s you can run 9011 HIRs which is one of the highest performing halogen bulbs in existence, superior to the H9s covered in this thread. It can be difficult to find true HIRs anymore though, many manufactures have reduced cost by building non-HIR versions that meet the output spec range for the bulb type. You can still get real HIR 9011s reboxed under the ACDelco label. I believe these are the highly sought after Toshiba HIR units and no longer manufactured. Amazon will try to point you toward the newer, cheaper non-HIR version, don't fall for it.

$73 ACDelco GM Original Equipment HIR1 (25770739) High Beam Headlight Bulb

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-HIR1...1&keywords=ACDelco+9011&qid=1614141936&sr=8-2

LEDs in rear entry projectors should be clocked at 3 and 9 o'clock, aka to the driver and passenger side, not up/down. Morimotos 2stroke 3.0s are now the thinnest LED with Hikari Ultra coming in second, however while the Morimotos provide better focus the Hikaris are ~10% higher output intensity.