What is this dealership trying to do?

old_and_in_the_way · Feb 27, 2021

UGH...I read so many similar posts to this, we almost need to create a "what not to do at the dealer thread". For buying advice, service advice, and general realistic expectations to keep in mind when doing business of any kind at the dealer.

OP: not intended to insult in anyway, just general advice: don't let the dealer look up your skirt in any way, shape or form until you have a firm (written) agreement backed by actual consideration. Sounds like you have a hungry shark of a salesman here. May be too late to salvage this one, but there are others out there.

lynlan1819 · Feb 27, 2021

UberDingu[OP] initial post: ↑

So my wife and I went to the dealership on 2/15 to look at a new Off Road. They had to find a truck, so they had us fill out the credit application, and they would find the truck within 7-10 days.

The truck came in today, which I only found out because I called the sales guy at 5pm to ask what was going on with the truck. Here’s the issue:

He gives me the VIN and then tells me to give the insurance company the lien holder (he named one). This struck me as odd as I am aware of the process and I haven’t even met the finance guy to discuss options. I told him I don’t know who the lien holder is yet as we will decide that tomorrow. He repeatedly insists that they’ve already looked into it and this is “the best deal”. I told him that he has absolutely no authority to dictate what bank I finance with, and that honestly, I don’t think he should even be aware of any of these details as he is not the finance guy. He argued with me for a while and kept pushing/insisting that this is how it works, but eventually gave up as I refused to accept this. His reasoning in the end was “your insurance may not be open tomorrow to add the truck, in which case you can’t take it home”, I told him I don’t care, I’m in no rush.

He then asks me how much we are putting down (he pushed this in person too, so I just gave an approximate number). I said I would discuss that with the finance guy tomorrow when we come in. He insists that he needs to know the exact amount. I told him it was none of his business and that I would talk to the finance guy about it tomorrow. He kept pushing until I got pissed off enough and he said we could wait until tomorrow then. He then went on about how I’m being rude and he’s “done so much for me”.

A little back story on my interactions with the sales guy:

I initially reached out online for a price. I was contacted and told they would look for a truck and call me back the next day. I was never contacted again, even after trying to follow up with the sales guy. So I emailed the manager and he gave me a price and apologized.

So I go in and they give me this new sales guy. He asks me what I’m looking for and I tell him everything I want (Cab size, trim, engine, 4x4, packages, etc)… I shit you not, this man looks at me and nervously says “You obviously know a lot more about this than me, but does the Off Road come in an access cab?”. Great way to start a sale, right?

I hated this guy already, but I know exactly what I want, I have a price, and I’m not adding ANYTHING on to the purchase, so I figured fuck it, I’ll let him rock.

He then proceeded to tell me about “new for 2021” features that the truck has had since 2016, argued with me insisting that the access cab can’t have the premium package, gave me a price $700 higher than the manager and then basically called me a liar until I showed him the email and he verified it with the manager. He also refuses to call me by my first name. He calls me by my last name despite me correcting him in person and on the phone. I can go on.

My question… what are they doing? I’ve bought several cars and never had any dealership try to do business this way. Am I wrong here? Maybe this is legit.

It almost seems like they already went ahead and pulled a loan on our behalf before they even had the truck since he kept repeating the initial down payment amount I gave him trying to get me to confirm.
Click to expand...

Tell him too go screw himself,and go somewhere else.

Steves104x4 · Feb 27, 2021

UberDingu[OP] said: ↑

I got the truck.

The sales guy barely spoke to me, as did the finance guy. Only said what was necessary. They clearly did not like me, and since I know they're both scumbags the feeling was obviously mutual. This made the whole thing go WAY smoother.

They skipped the accessory, GAP, and prepaid service BS altogether. All he did was slide over a paper on Toyota's VSA and kept it moving.

The truck was $129 more than the one I was quoted on, because it has all weather mats instead of carpeted. They ate the difference.

They were definitely playing games with the APR. I asked about rates from specific banks in the area and was told they didn't check with any of them.

We may just refinance, but the 1% or less difference is somewhat negligible. (They gave us 1.99%)

I love the truck. The OR handles the shitty CT back roads much better than my Sport. I'll post pics if it ever stops raining
Click to expand...

My heart swells with pride!

aStrauss · Feb 27, 2021

UberDingu[OP] said: ↑

No, but I did try there too. They gave me a price of MSRP and refused to budge. When I told them I had 2 other dealers $1,000+ below MSRP already, so thanks but no thanks, he offered me the $1,000 Toyota rebate and worded it as if he was doing me a favor. When I explained that I was aware of what he was doing he said that I was right and that he would come down $500. I already had a lower price elsewhere so I said no thanks.

I had the exact same experience there when I was looking for my 16 Sport.
Click to expand...

That place is fucking awful. Never have I been treated so poorly by any type of business establishment. I’ve been there twice and both times swore I’d never go back. A1 has my utmost trust, though I ended up buying from Hoffman because they had the EXACT truck I wanted, and I was sure I’d have to order it.

MGMDesertTaco · Feb 28, 2021

Alright, alright, most people loath the car buying process, points made and taken. Now, let's see some pictures of the new truck!

Taco_mike73 · Feb 28, 2021

1.99 is great and better than I got with an 800+ credit score. Congratulations on the truck.

Buying is a tough frustrating experience some times. I know I went to a local toyota stealership and I smelled a bad deal. They had close to $1000 of worthless ad ons. And we're trying to convince me my potential trade had a transmission that made horrible noise in reverse(didn't) to not pay much for it. No negotiate off MSRP. Then they didn't want to give my keys back when I said I wasn't doing a deal like that any day, just like someone else said happened to them.
They were scammers. I drove my old vehicle for nearly a year and private sold it quickly for 3x their trade offer before I went out and tried to make a deal else where. Some dealerships earn being called stealership.

UberDingu · Feb 28, 2021

When I got it home:

I grabbed some predator steps today because my wife has trouble getting in/out:

JoeK1 · Feb 28, 2021

Very nice!!!

averagejp · Feb 28, 2021

UberDingu[OP] said: ↑

When I got it home:

I grabbed some predator steps today because my wife has trouble getting in/out:

Click to expand...

Glad it worked out!

Stepping back and looking at your situation, it seems like you got the following: 1) The truck you wanted, 2) A good price, 3) A decent loan with a good APR. Am I right about that?

Remember, these are all games -- and really stupid, Franky -- but as long as you got 1, 2 and 3 above, it doesn't matter. Sure it would be nice to have a good relationship with a dealer but that is rare ... and frankly you are not there for the friendship.

Whenever there is a conflict in business, a great many people go nuts, go nuclear or go for the legal threat. As a general rule, I always step back and look to see if there is any opportunity or anything I can gain. Sometimes there is not. But in many other situations it works out and you come out ahead.

Happy for you ... and thanks for posting a positive resolution ... and a great truck!

Congrats and enjoy !

Tacman19 · Feb 28, 2021

UberDingu[OP] initial post: ↑

So my wife and I went to the dealership on 2/15 to look at a new Off Road. They had to find a truck, so they had us fill out the credit application, and they would find the truck within 7-10 days.

The truck came in today, which I only found out because I called the sales guy at 5pm to ask what was going on with the truck. Here’s the issue:

He gives me the VIN and then tells me to give the insurance company the lien holder (he named one). This struck me as odd as I am aware of the process and I haven’t even met the finance guy to discuss options. I told him I don’t know who the lien holder is yet as we will decide that tomorrow. He repeatedly insists that they’ve already looked into it and this is “the best deal”. I told him that he has absolutely no authority to dictate what bank I finance with, and that honestly, I don’t think he should even be aware of any of these details as he is not the finance guy. He argued with me for a while and kept pushing/insisting that this is how it works, but eventually gave up as I refused to accept this. His reasoning in the end was “your insurance may not be open tomorrow to add the truck, in which case you can’t take it home”, I told him I don’t care, I’m in no rush.

He then asks me how much we are putting down (he pushed this in person too, so I just gave an approximate number). I said I would discuss that with the finance guy tomorrow when we come in. He insists that he needs to know the exact amount. I told him it was none of his business and that I would talk to the finance guy about it tomorrow. He kept pushing until I got pissed off enough and he said we could wait until tomorrow then. He then went on about how I’m being rude and he’s “done so much for me”.

A little back story on my interactions with the sales guy:

I initially reached out online for a price. I was contacted and told they would look for a truck and call me back the next day. I was never contacted again, even after trying to follow up with the sales guy. So I emailed the manager and he gave me a price and apologized.

So I go in and they give me this new sales guy. He asks me what I’m looking for and I tell him everything I want (Cab size, trim, engine, 4x4, packages, etc)… I shit you not, this man looks at me and nervously says “You obviously know a lot more about this than me, but does the Off Road come in an access cab?”. Great way to start a sale, right?

I hated this guy already, but I know exactly what I want, I have a price, and I’m not adding ANYTHING on to the purchase, so I figured fuck it, I’ll let him rock.

He then proceeded to tell me about “new for 2021” features that the truck has had since 2016, argued with me insisting that the access cab can’t have the premium package, gave me a price $700 higher than the manager and then basically called me a liar until I showed him the email and he verified it with the manager. He also refuses to call me by my first name. He calls me by my last name despite me correcting him in person and on the phone. I can go on.

My question… what are they doing? I’ve bought several cars and never had any dealership try to do business this way. Am I wrong here? Maybe this is legit.

It almost seems like they already went ahead and pulled a loan on our behalf before they even had the truck since he kept repeating the initial down payment amount I gave him trying to get me to confirm.
Click to expand...

You need to talk to the General Manager, tell him what happened, and walk the phuck out. These people are everywhere now and they need to shut it down. There is a lack of leadership at these dealers and when they don't get the units they want, they'll learn.
Zim

UberDingu · Mar 1, 2021

averagejp said: ↑

Glad it worked out!

Stepping back and looking at your situation, it seems like you got the following: 1) The truck you wanted, 2) A good price, 3) A decent loan with a good APR. Am I right about that?

Remember, these are all games -- and really stupid, Franky -- but as long as you got 1, 2 and 3 above, it doesn't matter. Sure it would be nice to have a good relationship with a dealer but that is rare ... and frankly you are not there for the friendship.

Whenever there is a conflict in business, a great many people go nuts, go nuclear or go for the legal threat. As a general rule, I always step back and look to see if there is any opportunity or anything I can gain. Sometimes there is not. But in many other situations it works out and you come out ahead.

Happy for you ... and thanks for posting a positive resolution ... and a great truck!

Congrats and enjoy !
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct. Next time I will certainly do things differently. It was aggravating, but it worked out and I'll be able to learn from my mistakes (the forums help with this a lot)

averagejp · Mar 1, 2021

UberDingu[OP] said: ↑

Yes, you are correct. Next time I will certainly do things differently. It was aggravating, but it worked out and I'll be able to learn from my mistakes (the forums help with this a lot)
Click to expand...

Honestly, you got the truck you wanted at a good price. I don't see the mistake in there!

mike2810 · Mar 1, 2021

JoeK1 said: ↑

So just throwing this out there. I am a auto broker on the side. I negotiate with dealerships on behalf of my customer to get the best possible deal.

Ill start with they dont need your credit until the deal is done in principle and they need to run it to confirm financing/ interest rates. If they ask just say no I don't want my credit run until I'm ready.

The dealer using there financing is not bad, you can get rates from your bank or credit union. But do not tell them you plan to use outside financing or pay cash until price is negotiated.

For probably 95% of my customer's thr dealer can and will get you a better interest rate. You can even tell then the best rate you have gotten and ask them to beat it I do that often. You have to look at this way, a dealer finances a lot of people every month. They deal with lots of banks and credit unions who want there buisness, the credit union that gave you a say 3% will without a doubt give a dealer they do buisness with a point less, knowing they can get multiple customers through the dealer.

If you walk in say im paying cash or I have my own financing I can guarantee you will pay more for the vehicle. They certainly make money on the loans but so does you bank, they may just get a flat kick back.

I saw one comment saying the salesman was trying to meet his end of month quota, most salesman dont have one, the dealer has many end of month goals with the manufacturer. The reason you get better deals at the end of the month is they know what number they need to hit for there incentives. Example toyota dealer has sold 192 units they are inline for a kick back from toyota of $100 per until , but if they sell 200 they get a $200 kick back per unit sold. So it only makes sense for a sales manager to really discount even lose money on the last 8 to meet that goal.

Know what you want who has and availability, there are resources for this. The Tacoma Offroad has the highest inventory of all Tacoma is the US by a good margin always does paying MSRP would not even be in my realm of possibility, I'd be looking for 5 to 8% off before any factory incentives.

If anyone ever has any questions about a deal they are doing it want to do PM me. Like I said I have a full time job but I love car sales and buying and turned that into a side job, so I tend to be up to date on what's going on, and have access to some pretty good resources. Not trying to make buisness for myself im only licensed in MN and only do one customer at a time just want to help people with what can be a confusing stressful process.
Click to expand...

- I never tell them I am paying cash till I am in the finance office and getting ready to do the final paperwork. (Then the question is do they want a personal check or cashier check?)
- I never tell them I am trading in till I have a firm price on the new vehicle. For me trading a vehicle in should be a separate deal.
- For me I research enough to know what I am willing to pay for the new vehicle and what I want for my trade. (new vehicle = cash + trade) if the cash number is within range we have a deal.

UberDingu · Mar 2, 2021

Strange, but entertaining update... I just got a voicemail from the manager of the dealership. Supposedly, my insurance company sent the binder without the lien holder listed on it. They sent me the binder at the same time and it is listed on mine, but who knows.

He said he tried to have them change it on my behalf but was getting nowhere, so he needs me to update it or they "can't book the deal for them".

This was the exact justification the sales guy gave for trying to dictate my lender on a Friday night... "we can't register it unless your insurance company sends us an insurance binder with the lien holder and VIN on it and they may not be open on Saturdays"

It's funny, because the deal has already been booked for me

ICU1 · Mar 2, 2021

UberDingu[OP] initial post: ↑

So my wife and I went to the dealership on 2/15 to look at a new Off Road. They had to find a truck, so they had us fill out the credit application, and they would find the truck within 7-10 days.

The truck came in today, which I only found out because I called the sales guy at 5pm to ask what was going on with the truck. Here’s the issue:

He gives me the VIN and then tells me to give the insurance company the lien holder (he named one). This struck me as odd as I am aware of the process and I haven’t even met the finance guy to discuss options. I told him I don’t know who the lien holder is yet as we will decide that tomorrow. He repeatedly insists that they’ve already looked into it and this is “the best deal”. I told him that he has absolutely no authority to dictate what bank I finance with, and that honestly, I don’t think he should even be aware of any of these details as he is not the finance guy. He argued with me for a while and kept pushing/insisting that this is how it works, but eventually gave up as I refused to accept this. His reasoning in the end was “your insurance may not be open tomorrow to add the truck, in which case you can’t take it home”, I told him I don’t care, I’m in no rush.

He then asks me how much we are putting down (he pushed this in person too, so I just gave an approximate number). I said I would discuss that with the finance guy tomorrow when we come in. He insists that he needs to know the exact amount. I told him it was none of his business and that I would talk to the finance guy about it tomorrow. He kept pushing until I got pissed off enough and he said we could wait until tomorrow then. He then went on about how I’m being rude and he’s “done so much for me”.

A little back story on my interactions with the sales guy:

I initially reached out online for a price. I was contacted and told they would look for a truck and call me back the next day. I was never contacted again, even after trying to follow up with the sales guy. So I emailed the manager and he gave me a price and apologized.

So I go in and they give me this new sales guy. He asks me what I’m looking for and I tell him everything I want (Cab size, trim, engine, 4x4, packages, etc)… I shit you not, this man looks at me and nervously says “You obviously know a lot more about this than me, but does the Off Road come in an access cab?”. Great way to start a sale, right?

I hated this guy already, but I know exactly what I want, I have a price, and I’m not adding ANYTHING on to the purchase, so I figured fuck it, I’ll let him rock.

He then proceeded to tell me about “new for 2021” features that the truck has had since 2016, argued with me insisting that the access cab can’t have the premium package, gave me a price $700 higher than the manager and then basically called me a liar until I showed him the email and he verified it with the manager. He also refuses to call me by my first name. He calls me by my last name despite me correcting him in person and on the phone. I can go on.

My question… what are they doing? I’ve bought several cars and never had any dealership try to do business this way. Am I wrong here? Maybe this is legit.

It almost seems like they already went ahead and pulled a loan on our behalf before they even had the truck since he kept repeating the initial down payment amount I gave him trying to get me to confirm.
Click to expand...

You do know how to hang up the phone and take your business elsewhere? This is YOUR ride not the stealership. I would drop this stealership like a bad habit.

CT Yankee · Mar 2, 2021

UberDingu[OP] said: ↑

This was the exact justification the sales guy gave for trying to dictate my lender on a Friday night... "we can't register it unless your insurance company sends us an insurance binder with the lien holder and VIN on it and they may not be open on Saturdays"
Click to expand...

That may be the case in CT. I reregistered my '06 after transferring the plates to my '21, and when I went to our 'wonderful' DMV proof of insurance was required. However in my case I held the title so there was no lienholder involved. Don't recall what my insurance card has on it for the '21, but I don't recall seeing a lienholder listed.

UberDingu · Mar 2, 2021

CT Yankee said: ↑

That may be the case in CT. I reregistered my '06 after transferring the plates to my '21, and when I went to our 'wonderful' DMV proof of insurance was required. However in my case I held the title so there was no lienholder involved. Don't recall what my insurance card has on it for the '21, but I don't recall seeing a lienholder listed.
Click to expand...

Oh, I believe it is true. It just made me laugh because he called me at about 5:15pm on Friday. If my insurance wasn't going to be open on Saturday, I'm pretty sure they would've been closed by 5 on a Friday.

What I get from this is, they fucked up and registered my truck without the required legalities on their end and now THEY need ME

ETA: Or I'm misjudging the entire thing and they're gonna somehow get my registration canceled

CT Yankee · Mar 2, 2021

If your truck is registered (you've got the plates on it) and you have a valid insurance card, what exposure is there to you? Don't see how they could rescind the registration. Could be the lienholders name didn't get to the insurance company and now the dealer is in hot water with the lender. I'd have fun and make 'em sweat for a bit.

MaverickT883 · Mar 2, 2021

Dravnx said: ↑

.... who will play the "I have to ask my manager" game.
Click to expand...

Fun fact, a lot of dealers do actually require salesmen to authorize prices with their managers.

ABA180 · Mar 2, 2021

Spare Parts said: ↑

1.99 % isn’t bad at all
Click to expand...

Nope not at all, I got 0.9 on my 2010 used.

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