Synthetic oil

Amsoil in everything

 

Mobil 1, have seen engines that were under boost torn down after using and could still see cylinder cross hatching

 

Does anyone KNOW the reason Toyota still recommends* conventional oil in the 2010 2.7, but recommends synthetic in the 2011? Aren't the engines identical?

*http://www.toyota.com/owners/parts-service/synthetic-oil/chart.html

 

I had never heard of 0 w 20, but that is what the 2011 calls for (synthetic only)

 

0W-20 for 2010 as well (2.7l), except synthetic is NOT required

 

I don't think you will ever see anything that says 'synthetic is required'. The purpose of specifications is to completely sidestep marketing hype (and that word 'synthetic' is marketing hype, pure and simple) and focus on performance.

So to the standard setters it doesn't matter how a company formulates an oil, only that it meet the standard. So any oil that meets ILSAC GL4 or GL5 testing sequence and is graded API SM or SN can be used. The thing is, at the time mostly synthetic and synthetic blend oils meet that in weight 0w20.

But I've read where there will be more petroleum based oils hitting the shelves in the coming months.

 

They don't...TSB EG018T06 revised oil requirements to include use of 0w20 for 2.7's all the way back to 2005 IIRC.

That's why a lot of people taking their tacomas to a Toyota dealer for oil change/service have been coming away with it.

 

'Required' is precisely the word used by Toyota in the URL I posted. 'Required' for the 2011 but not for the 2010 4 cylinder. Makes no sense to me.

"Toyota Vehicle Quick Reference Chart
The chart below depicts which Toyota vehicles require synthetic oil.
Most vehicles require synthetic oil changes every 10,000 miles.
indicates a vehicle that requires an oil change with synthetic oil every 5,000 miles." [emphasis applied]

_ http://www.toyota.com/owners/parts-service/synthetic-oil/chart.html

The 2010 manual does not reference synthetic either. It merely says the oil should be 0W-20 'Toyota' branded or it's equivalent.

Speaking of their oil recommendations, they also specify a higher viscosity 'may' be used if the Tacoma is used at high speeds or under heavy load.

 

At first glance...that is the most inane thing I've ever seen. Synthetic is totally undefined so how can you possibly comply? Synthetic is a marketing term. Would a synthetic blend do? Does it have to be 100% PAO (nigh on impossible)? What percent Group II and III are allowed? What about if group V is used?

It can only make any sense if you are talking about a specific brand of oil...which they are. The Toyota brand. Toyota controls the specification, buys the stocks and labels the bottle and therefore know what they are calling 'synthetic' and therefore exactly what they mean when they say it. So, when they say 'synthetic is required', they are really saying 'toyota synthetic is required', but they can't REALLY say that or they'd run afoul of Magnussun-Moss act. So they befuddle and confuse.

If not buying Toyota oil, I'd stick with the easier to understand and, therefore ensure compliance, specification requirements that appears in the manual and TSB.

 

There is much on the web that supports your contention that these oils are not strictly defined. There are also studies that show that for most vehicles, 'synthetics' offer no advantanges over 'conventional' oils in 'real world applications:

"In July 1996, Consumer Reports published the results of a two year motor oil test involving a fleet of 75 New York taxi cabs and found no noticeable advantage of synthetic oil over regular mineral oil.[18] In their article, they noted that "Big-city cabs don't see many cold start-ups or long periods of high speed driving in extreme heat. But our test results relate to the most common type of severe service — stop-and-go city driving." According to their study, synthetic oil is "worth considering for extreme driving conditions: high ambient temperatures and high engine load, or very cold temperatures."

Yet the entire article goes on to establish differences between the oils and in the definitions of such. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

Nonetheless Toyota comes out and asserts that 'synthetic' oil is 'required' for the 2011 4 cylinder Tacoma, but not 'required' for the 2010 version despite the fact that apparently it is the same engine. I simply ask 'why?'

I would also like to have access to the TSB's that have been issued on the subject.

 

It may also have to do with the fact that all manufacturers in 2011 models have to meet the new GF5 oil standard. I work at a GM dealer and we have switched to a new synthetic blend called DEXOS. The Honda dealer next door to us is also using synthetic blends to meet the new standard.

 

I use Valvoline Max Life 5w-30 Synthetic Blend. No real changes...

 

Makes sense, but wasn't GF4 set in 2004?

 

I recieved the pre paid maintenece kit in the mail. It added more confusion and said somthing about oil change at 10,000 even thought chart refereced above say 5,000. I will print that out and keep in truck in case the dealer does not want to change.

 

I've read that also, in a number of places. I don't think 'synthetic' oil has the same clear advantage it once had, especially in routine service. The one area it is clearly superior, though, is it's shear stability, i.e., stay in grade for a long service life. That's why I say synthetic only makes sense if the intent is to extend drain intervals.

Does Toyota say the synthetic is required anyplace other than that web page you to point to? That web page is little more than an advert for genuine Toyota motor oil: it is NOT your owner's manual, or a TSB. If there's ever a warranty dispute I think an arbritrator will defer to the manual and TSB's before an advert page. It's really just confusing an owner, and it seems that's pretty easy to do.

So, to answer your question 'why': I think maybe because they want you to buy the genuine Toyota motor oil they call 'synthetic'??

 

Is it safe to go 10,000 miles on synthetic ( Mobil 1)

 

I do. There's a lot of people who go 15-20K...but they also do oil analysis that tells them if something's going south in the oil. That's the only safe way to go that long.

10K is really safe even with conventional oil but there's not much margin for it so I wouldn't without doing analysis. Considering they cost somewhere around $30-40 it kinda shoots the reason for extending unless as a hobby.

 

Thanks man. The issue i have is keeping up with maintenance at my dealership. Do you guys with synthetic just skip the 5K service and just do it ever 10K. The reason I ask is cause in 10k miles I will be at 25,000 and want to know if i should just do 30k service

 

X2. cost somewhere around $30-40 for oil analysis it kinda shoots the reason for extending unless as a hobby. Easier and cheaper to just change it yourself at 5,000 IMHO. I can change it and filter for under $30 and the oil analysis is $30 so what's the point ?

 

The point is...I go 10000 with Mobil1 Save the hassle and cost of that extra 5K change. No analysis: Mobil1 (and PennPlatinum, and Amsoil, and Royal Purple, and Redline, and a lot of others) are safe for 10K without analysis. European manufacturers have allowed such intervals under warranty for a long time (first in Europe where oils are more carefully graded) and more manufacturers are in the US too.

I change oil once a year...at my annual safety/emissions inspection. If I don't give him something to do, he'll find something (whether it needed it or not) and it will cost a lot more. That comes to about 10K for each of my wife's car and my truck.