Electric Tacoma coming

Tesla traction batteries are 350 volts or so and Toyotas hybrid traction batteries are over 200 volts. Every auto auxiliary device such as lights, sensors, fuel management, relays, safety devices, etc. run off 12v and any deviation from this is impractical and unnecessary. Traction batteries are also isolated from vehicle for safety reasons via relays mounted next to battery when vehicle is off or in the event of an accident leaving the 12v battery to power aux. systems such as lights and other accessories. Don't know about Tesla but Toyotas 12V acc battery is charged off the traction battery when vehicle is on. The "mild hybrid" use 48v batteries to cut down on amperage requirements of motors. I expect all auxiliary devices are still 12V.

 

Trying to catch up on a lot so just contributing a couple of thoughts for right now re: the Lightning

Don't forget the federal/state tax credits as applicable, or cost of maintenance.

Or the performance increase. Depending on which powertrain you're comparing it to, you're going from [325 hp/400 lb-ft (2.7 v6) - 430hp/570 lb-ft (3.5L Powerboost V6)] to... 563 hp/775 lb-ft, from solid rear axle and leaf springs to independent suspension.

Eh, yes, technically, but also no. If you're ONLY in the market for a full size truck, or a mid-size truck, then yeah, you will only go for one of those respectively, but if you're the type of consumer that wants a truck, you're not going to assess on size as much. I think Ford is going to steal sales from both the Tundra and the Taco with this, as one of the considerations for a mid size truck over full size is fuel economy.

Kind of takes the steam out of the Tundra reveal, unless they are also debuting an EV this fall. If so good on them for keeping it so quiet.

 

Well the physical size of the Tacoma won't allow for as many batteries as the Tundra could hold. If a full size EV truck can tow 10-11,000 lbs the tacoma may be able to do just 7-8,000 lbs. The range on the Ford though won't pull as many trailer towing buyers as you think especially since the standard range is 230 miles in optimal conditions. Time will tell what Toyota will come up with but they are watching very closely.

 

I think most people who tow trailers etc aren't under the impression that this will work for them. In the future I am sure well get there but not for quite awhile

 

Yeah, the towing range is one thing that I am going to be watching. Not that it matters to me, I don't even have as much as a utility trailer, but I think it will be a good indication of how much battery technology advances.

I'm very intrigued by the lightning, but I do think the 230 mile range is kind of a joke. In terms of using it as a work truck for construction, if I have to drive 60 miles to a job site, and I'm running/charging power tools from the truck, then I eat lunch in it running climate control, for 10-12 hours, am I going to be able to make it the 60 miles back home?

The math is out there, I just don't have it in front of me.

That out of the way, like I said I'm intrigued. A high school buddy's brother had a lightning and I always thought it was sick. The fact that they've decided to bring it back as an EV I think is a brilliant move by Ford, and the thought that went into the productivity and luxury features is pretty neat as well. I'm a fan, and look forward to what this means for the future of EV pick ups.

 

That is completely irrelevant to the point that an electric Tacoma is needed sooner rather than later... Or rather, I suppose it is relevant as it makes our trucks look pretty pathetic getting like 16-17 mpg when you get get a fullsize in electric.

Obviously a fullsize can pack in more batteries and I don't expect an electric midsize to compete spec-wise, but that doesn't mean the Tacoma shouldn't lead the way within the midsize market.

 

Also the Tundra isn't really competition to anything as its sales numbers suck. Whereas the Tacoma is one of the best selling trucks, period. The Tacoma is infinitely more important to Toyota than the Tundra is.

 

I was talking class size. The Tacoma isn't the same class as a F-150 or Tundra.

 

I get that. The point is the Tacoma, and basically all midsize trucks, are going to look pretty stupid and pointless when you can get a fullsize in an electric, while our midsize trucks continue to get crap gas mileage. Also, the Tacoma is an important vehicle to Toyota in the US, and one of the most important trucks, period, so it would be insane for there not to be an electric taco (or at least plugin hybrid) soon.

 

Totally agree with that. If you're not in it for towing, the deciding factor for full size or mid size shifts from fuel economy to "will this fit in my garage/driveway?" Aside from being more truck than you need, I can't think of a reason not to go full size.

The other interesting question it poses is, what will an EV mid-size truck offer? Less room for batteries doesn't necessarily mean lower towing capacity, but more importantly less range. So it has to be cheaper, right? So what is the EV Ranger going to go for? I'm assuming an EV Ranger isn't far behind, especially since Ford wants to dethrone the Taco.

 

It's hard to say how much less the range would be given the weight of the vehicle would be significantly less. The Tesla 3 is much smaller than a Taco, and its range is incredible.

And yeah, I'm sure an Electric Ranger isn't far off, which would make Toyota look even dumber if there were no electric Tacoma at that point.

 

The Ranger is the best name for an EV truck, unless it's battery range is terrible.

I see a lot of F150 buyers looking at the powerboost, that had no interest in a hybrid before the reveal of the F150 Lightning.

 

I thought this was really cool. Hey, it already has electricity in its name!

Like, somebody brought it up a a meeting, and everyone laughed a little because it’s so on-the-nose obvious, and then they went for it. I want this little guy to be part of the ad campaign:

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/amp36481590/ford-f150-lightning-range-towing/

 

Love this science. They tested it with an (unnamed?) EV and just roughshod extrapolated accordingly. Sweet. Did everyone fail science in the 8th grade? I had Mr. Houston, and he was a real weirdo with a real skeleton in his room, and he taught us how to make chemical reactions that could be weaponized, but he ALSO taught us how to test shit. ABA tests. Minimize the variables. Use Enlightenment Values to inform our organizational logic.

That said, check out Tacomaworld.com for all the threads on people that get 50% of their mpg rating when they tow at 70mph. Towing sucks powah. Need more powah if you towwww. Also, here’s a bird with tow in its name; saw it in my birdbath this AM and thought of y’all:

 

@Malvolio

What's important is a 10mpg 1/2 ton still has 250 mile range and can conveniently fill up in 5 minutes.

 

Toyota will ultimately respond to the market, but their truck update cycles are excessively long and some customers will ultimately tire of waiting and move on.

I really would love a significantly updated and plug-in hybrid or full EV Tacoma. There will be one, perhaps 2024/2025. I won’t wait that long so I’ve put my refundable reservation down on a Lightning.

I will turn over the rock on the updated Tundra as it should be available ahead of the Lighting actually being delivered. But if it isn’t PHEV I expect I’ll pass and get the Lightning.

 

I get that, but this thread already recently covered that idea that towing might make tow-centric folks look elsewhere, and most F150s tow nothing. If you were just responding and saying that that^ issue of towing was important to you because you tow shit a lot would be unmentionable and viable. But a link from some C&D hack guessing from their armchair about trucks that they can’t yet drive and making that sweet 43,000 USD a year for less-than-blog-worthy articles triggers me. We can demand better references and futurists. They exist.

I actually tend to read the stuff that people post here and just...want to get something out of it?

 

This is my hope and I think most folks feel the same. But to play devils advocate, it's going to be very hard for Toyota , Ford , GM, BWM or anyone who has not already invested heavily in their EV batteries tech, software tech, AND chassis production , to survive.

Tesla spent so much time/money/r&d/charging network + equipment in mass production factories that they can realistically offer superior products at lower prices . Additionally , they are going to offer things like Full self driving packages & cheap car insurance . It is not looking good at all for car makers. Tesla is so far ahead now it's unfair. Look at the price for anything that even remotely compares to what any tesla model offers. the Tesla is almost always cheaper in price and better (more range, more performance, more tech , new materials...) . Compound this with the fact that they can actually make deliveries with their "giga factories" they will offer full self driving (massive game changer) and car insurance? it's not fair.

The F150 platinum will come out at 90k. this is the one that can come somewhat close to the Tri-motor (69k) cyber truck or even duel motor (48k). 90k? That's more money for less everything ! the only thing the ford has is old school looks and maybe it's more approachable for some boomer who needs to "talk to the sales guy face to face and givemmmmmmm a firm handshake".

I would totally take an EV Toyota truck all day IF they are to be sold at a lower cost than a tesla truck. But this will not be so. you will get something half assed (mild steel body frame, batteries haphazardly stashed anywhere they could fit and tech that is 100 years behind tesla) and they cherry on the shit pie is ,it will cost MORE than the douche tesla. this has been the case so far with Porsche electric car, Audis Etron, ford mache E.... you always get something less for more money. .... the only way these cars can sell is based off pure consumer ignorance or some insane tax break or dealer incentive where they lose money on the deal .

The only real hope is if Chinese electrical car companies start to make and bring over their imitation Teslas for less cost. now that makes wayyyyyy more logical sense .


Edit* I'm so spun out on these EVs because I'm a douche out here in douche central (So Cal) . I have driven many of them (Model 3 , Y, X, Audi E Tron, Nissan Leaf) seen how my friends have purchased them, seen how they live with them day to day and shit is bananas. Anyone who thinks they know, I recommend just renting an EV on Turo and see what the deal is. So many things that don't even occur to you as advantages vs gas.

 

I'm a semi-tree hugger and even I agree with you. We already have issues with our electrical grids in certain parts of the country with rolloig blackouts. When do we start building more electrical sources to meet this demand when miore and more cars are plugged in, not only over-night, but then during the day as people take them on longer road trips and have to plug in during the day?