Solved: thanks everyone! My suspension sways me round right round like a record baby

Edit for Solved: steering rack was loosely attached, and sway bar bushings were toast. Alignment was needed as well.

Hi y'all,

After driving my 02 tacoma 4x4 regular cab for the last 110,000 of it's 198,000 miles, I came to recognize that my truck was not driving like it did in college 7-8 years ago. Suprise! It used to feel tight and controlled, and lately it seems very bouncy, a little out of control with lots of body roll. It no longer feels as stable as it once did in the corners. Now thats no surprise, as all the suspension is original, and it's been worked pretty hard at that. I did my research, and intended to diy replace it all and go full OME, but I hesitated on spending the time and money.

Eventually I procrastinated to a point where my decision was made for me. I was leaving on a long road trip that would leave my wife driving it, and I felt that I had to take action. A local shop I took it to stated that the issue was my shocks, and despite me asking specifically (several times) about the need to replace the springs, ball joints, bushings, etc, they said that they were fine. I ended up shelling out $1100 for these guys to "diagnose" the issue and put bilstein 4600s on all 4 corners.

Since then

• my body roll and diving actually seems worse, rocking back and forth several times at the faintest movement, even rocking front left to rear right etc.
• my rear end is losing contact on slow-speed turns intermittently
• and I'm getting some wild (what seems like driveline) vibrations.
• Intermittently I hear a squeak from the rear when letting off the brake pedal. Not sure if this is relevant, new or not.

I feel like a complete idiot for spending all that cash for something that seemingly didn't help at all. Afterwards, I got a rotation, balance, and alignment at les schwab and the tech said unprompted that my truck was "bouncy", and quoted me for rear leafs.

To be clear - I don't blame the bilsteins, it seems like they're doing an ok job at mitigating bumps. As expected, my ride height is the same before and after as well, I wasn't expecting change there. It just seems that either the install was messed up, or something further is needed. I'm guessing springs.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a plan of action here aside from just writing off the whole experience as an expensive lesson? learned. I'm hoping someone here can cut through my cognitive dissonance and help me figure out what to do. Did the shop mess up? or is something else going on here? Thanks everyone!

 

Did they do a test drive with him at the wheel beforehand and you beside him pointing out your concerns as they happened in real time? If so, he would have egg on his face afterwards if the ride was the same.

 

I’m currently having issues with my year old Bilsteins. Shot already and it never leaves asphalt. I had never bought them before and won’t be buying them again. Let the barrage begin… have someone fat jump up / down then off the bumpers and watch from beneath. There should be no bounce. Pull up on the fender walls and let go and check that too. Guys and girls here love their Bilsteins, some have huge mileage on them. I’m replacing mine with something else before my new tires are destroyed…

 

Just remember everything is Fine is not the same as everything is like new or is new.

Shops for the most cater to the type of person that jumps in a vehicle and goes from point A to B .

Who could have a rear tire at 10 psi and never notice till someone told them . Body roll not a clue till the sides of the truck are inches from the road they might notice.

 

Check sway bar connections are good?

 

the bouncy feeling is the valving in that particluar shock is too "soft" for your liking. The shock manufacturers try to hit a middle of the road in valving for ride quality. The lingo for this is like 90/10... 90% compression 10% rebound, this is considered a "drag" shock as there is little resisitance from this shock when it expands. If you know what they installed and you can find out its "valving" then you will know which way to go... if it is avalible. I would call one of the vendors on this site, I use Downsouth Motorsport just because they are down the street from me... ask them for their recomendation.

I am not saying that you got taken advantage of, they did the work and you have to trust their inspection but it is a rare thing that a 1st gen Tacoma that doesnt have lower ball joint wear.

The comment on swaybar links and bushing is a good call too. There isnt much movement to a sway bar link/bushing and any looseness will not be transfered immediatly and will result in a "loose" feeling.

The squeak when you let off the brake pedal is coming from the rear shoes/springs. All it means is that the rear shoes could be slightly out of adjustment... if you can repeat this squeak every time, pull the E brake, apply the foot brake and see if the noise goes away.

 

Wyoming, you’re absolutely right about who shops are used to catering to. Reading that was a good reminder that I’m going to have to communicate my expectations clearly or adjust them.

(EDIT: apparently im blind, sway bar bushings were rekt.)
Good point - I’ve checked them visually, and the bushings don’t visually appear to be crumbling or loose. Endlinks feel solid but tbh i may not know what to look for here. Any tips or tricks? The bushings are original so I plan on replacing the bushings with energy suspension soonish. I’ll post back here with an update when I get it done.

 

Glamisman, thank you for taking the time to write this. I appreciate the lbj information. I had heard this info elsewhere as well, so I just replaced the lbjs and bolts myself with OEM. In the shops defense, the ones that I took off seemed pristine. I’ll keep them as spares jic. I found out afterwards that they had been replaced by Toyota as part of a recall? Or tsb ~100,000 miles ago.

I’ll definitely inspect the sway bar thoroughly, ordering the energy suspension bushings today.

In terms of the shocks, The truck had what I believe was oem - kyb gas-a-just. The shop replaced them with bilstein 4600, which I have been told is a small, slightly stiffer upgrade compared to the originals. I have much to learn about shocks and their respective valving, but I was surprised to find that my ride’s body roll was not improved with the 4600’s. It seems that the originals were stiffer. Does that line up with what you know?

 

What tires and psi are you running. “Soft” tires will contribute greatly to what feels like body roll to a normal driver.

 

sorry to hear that, hopefully your experience is a fluke.

 

>>In terms of the shocks, The truck had what I believe was oem - kyb gas-a-just. The shop replaced them with bilstein 4600, which I have been told is a small, slightly stiffer upgrade compared to the originals. I have much to learn about shocks and their respective valving, but I was surprised to find that my ride’s body roll was not improved with the 4600’s. It seems that the originals were stiffer. Does that line up with what you know?<<

That's my experience too. The truck now has 100,600 miles on it and is completely stock. I've replaced all my shocks twice now with 4600s, but the body roll (from side to side) nowadays is much more prevalent than I remember it being when the truck was new.

 

Ok, so here’s an update:

1. my steering rack bolts were so loose that the weight of my breaker bar tightened it. Pretty frustrating that the alignment shop, and the mechanic shop that I hired to inspect my trucks suspension and handling didnt notice. Instead they sold me shocks. I tightened the rack to spec, hopefully the poly bushings i put in a couple years ago are still ok.
2. My sway bar bushings were worn out so bad I could see a 2mm gap in between the bushings and the bar just looking from the sidewalk. Funny that the shop didn’t mention it. Replaced them with poly ones. Made a good difference with roll, but it’s still not great.

Here’s a video of me bouncing on the rear bumper in the middle, then the sides. The truck isn’t 100% on level ground but it’s not a crazy slope either. New 4600 bilstein shocks, lower ball joints, rack bushings, sway bar bushings, inner and outer tie rods, and more and I still get this crazy side to side movement in front. Is it just my springs being worn out as hell? Tire pressure? There’s 200k miles on them. Feels like im driving a shopping cart with a shit wheel. Watch the front end move around- does anyone have any ideas as to the issue?

https://youtu.be/q8deav7RzdY

 

Have you considered the upper and lower control arm bushings? How about the leaf spring and shackle hanger bushings? Cab/Body bushings?

The control arm bushings are kinda a pain in the ass, but I was pretty surprised at how bad my upper arm bushings were when I removed the arm. It was almost impossible to "feel" how bad they were on the vehicle, but they were visibly oxidized and pitted once I got them off.

I don't think the front end in that video looks too "soft" however, I am surprised by how much the rear compresses under your weight. But suggesting something like replacing the rear springs just based on that video alone would be a stretch.

 

That’s what I see in your video, the truck is moving around on the tires. I have not looked and/or videoed my truck while bouncing or pushing it so I’m not sure if that is normal. What are you running for pressure?

 

Let me check

 

Good work on the video! The bounce in the first part describes exactly what my truck does. I count four rebounds when you jump off the rear corners, and there shouldn't be more than one. When (if) you get this fixed and (if) you know just what parts fixed it, please let everybody in the forum know.

The rebound shown when you bounce the front looks normal as far as I can see.

 

replace the springs front and rear. yours are definitely worn out if they are 200k old.

the shocks / struts are meant to dampen and control the bounce, not support wait or prevent it.

your tires look like they are new enough and your truck is pretty small and light, so "soft"/light tires should be fine for it.

 

sure looks like a combo of your springs being shot and your shocks are not adequately helping with that. I have almost none of this because my rear springs are stiff as a board and my front coils are eibach 600s

 

I have the same problem. My truck has 204k on it. It's really noticeable at speed when some uneven pavement or potholes on dirt roads unsettles the front end. It's rolls from side to side way more than it should. I am going to try to replace the springs with OEM since I don't want a lift. It's going to hurt to pay $300 for them, but I don't see the MOOG springs as a solution for me. Just about everything else I see will lift the truck. I thought my problem was just a blown shock which happened on a long road trip. I put on Napa quick struts as a temp solution and though the back and forth front body roll got a little better it's still there. I am hoping to have the work done by the end of next week so I will post if new OEM springs or the other stuff I get replaced solve the problem.

Chris

 

I think you'll find that even new OEM springs will "lift" you from the current sagged height.