Leaked Tundra pics may show future for Tacoma

batacoma · Jun 20, 2021

Lt. Dangle said: ↑

Love it or hate it, you gotta admit it takes guts to build a truck where the grille is bigger than the bed.

I still hate it.
Click to expand...

This Tundra almost looks like a Prius. There's more RAV4 similarities than Prius.

Toyota must want to get those buyers into a fullsize pickup.

coopcooper · Jun 21, 2021

Carmaker1 said: ↑

Well, these from 2020 weren't renderings. They were exactly it. This shoudn't really be a surprise to anyone, as it has been a known entity on the exterior for months and the renderings were as I called it, lazy BS efforts.

REAL from 2020

BS Renderings from 2020

It is obviously not a concept, this is it. I would think people following news from time to time, would notice the difference between a pre-production model representative of the production vehicle versus a tarted up concept for the auto show rounds.

Now this kind of faulty logic is what I hate more than anything. We are all entitled to our opinions, by try not to lace it with opinionated factoids? Have some objectivity here. Toyota already had these testing over 2 years ago, in early 2019. Just because these mules were out and had the old cab, doesn't mean the design wasn't fully dialed in. The Job 1 date for these was originally August 3, 2020:

All the core design work in terms of styling hardpoints were locked in some 3 years ago and already testing by the end of 2018 on their proving grounds, HIDDEN from view. How does copying GMC work in your theory? Sometimes it's better not to make accusations off the cuff, if you can't prove them. No matter how funny it might sound to (some of) you. None of us go around copying each other, save for how many other half ton manufacturers just seem to borrow styling cues from the Raptor anyhow. Outside of that, everyone except Nissan is pretty original (see Titan, new Frontier).

I am sure the engineers and designers worked very hard on this starting 5-6 years back at Toyota in Texas, California, Ann Arbor MI, and Japan, to be randomly accused of copying a design that arrived AFTER they finished their own design work. You should note, automobiles are not finished at the last minute on this front.

I have said this for many years, but it just falls on deaf ears depending on the person I guess. On time redesign programs commit to the production design in all aspects 2 years before Job 1, for bigger vehicles add 6 months, for more complex efforts add another 6-12 months on top of that = 3.5 years at longest. For this truck, I am sure it will be a 4 year gap.

I've seen you mention TGNA-F quite a lot and respectfully look past it, but it's really TNGA-F meaning Toyota New Global Architecture - Frame. Just like for Lexus they use (TN)GA-L (Toyota New) Global Architecture - Luxury. I guess it's an honest typo, but seems to be often.

And who is that exactly ?

Um, whatever then. Anecdotal perspectives can vary immensely and it's easy to beat on Ford, yet so many love to copy...

Yeah, but it has been obvious enough for quite awhile. Anyone claiming those shots in red were just renderings or "FAKE" after seeing previous leaks, is terribly naive or being willfully obtuse. Toyota can easily drag their feet however long they want, but if there is a way to get around that earlier, it is up to the end user what they choose to trust or wait until solidly official.

That's a really weird question to ask, as it is the final design, no question about it and there are other leaks which confirmed that months ago. Especially considering that it takes years to develop a new vehicle and how a final design of a new model is always going to be set, well before you ever see anything of it in your orbit.

This new design was all defined over 3 years ago from what I remember, studying the development effort the past 5 years. Fully locked in by January 2019, for anyone to be accurately describing back in the spring of 2019 what it even looked like. A big Tacoma, with 4Runner influences. One could already even see it in these spy shots of a mule wearing the front and rear sheetmetal "skins", with a current gen cab in the middle.

January 2019 780B Tundra Program Mechanical Test Mule Winter Testing:

Honestly I really would expect the average person who logs into a forum, to at least understand the difference between a design study concept or veiled teaser show "prototype" against a pre-production vehicle not yet past Job 1, that is 99.9% the final design 99.9% of the time. The general public not so much, because they don't log in.

Toyota at this point have had years behind this, for anyone to be questioning whether or not it's the real deal. It is rather obvious at this point.

This 100%. Questions like that are just...(sighs). Between silly copycat accusations, which are unfair in terms benchmarking timelines or thinking automakers have limitless design changes on the fly and are not bound by strict lead times, the internet can be very disappointing. I get people have very busy lives, but wow.

I have done my best to make it very clear, design work, particularly sheetmetal/hardpoints, is designed years in advance and finalized no less than 2 years before you even see it. It's a done deal, not to mention being delayed by 14 months and getting designed quite a long time ago to be hearing comparisons to things GMC as well, that lean accusatory and not so much drawing coincidental similarities. Perhaps GM copied Toyota's own truck designs?

Yep. I don't even why people have any reason to be skeptical of the obvious right in front of them at this point. It is very easy to tell what is legitimate or final for production. There are always telltale signs. Look past the BS renderings, focus on media that is likely to be legitimate, instead of playing the "genius skeptic".

Why would anyone want that thing designed in 1989 and an unfortunate flop when it later came out in the 90s? Maybe 100 people would buy it at best. Half tons have just become lifted land yacht sedans of yore with more aggressive styling and not so much a rugged tool in single cab form. Read the room on what actually sells LOL.

LOL, what? Please consult your optometrist , as that looks nothing like the P702 F-150, a product I am very familiar with in each and every trim, plus upcoming 2024 MCA design work.

P702 F-150 1:1 Clay Final Design Review - November 17, 2017 Dearborn, MI (For MY 2021 F-150)

Our 2021 F-150 began production on October 12, 2020, nearly 36 months after we reached that point in the photos on November 17, 2017. Toyota took even longer in their case.

Toyota designed this new truck's new body in parallel until 2017-2018 for an October 2020 release and then fell behind an additional year due to hiccups.

Only the smallest of details changed between 2018 and now, that only vary by trim level. They didn't copy anyone, that had a new truck design introduced after the 2018 model year. You guys need to remember lead times exist in our industry and to know the timeline of a given product's general development, before making that critique. It's not like the cell phone market at all and much slower paced.

Opinions are opinions are styling similarities, but in actuality you really cannot copy things that do not exist to your knowledge when designing a new vehicle. In Toyota's defense, I had to make that observation, since our new P702 F-150 for 2021 was also accused of copying the 2019 GMC Sierra, which is false considering when we designed it and internally reached final design sign-off on November 17, 2017. GM revealed it well after that. I hate the 2019+ Sierra design anyway, compared to its predecessor that was more chiseled.

It might look like that to you in terms of your honest opinion, but like many others here, do you even know when this truck was actually designed for that matter? It wasn't yesterday nor last year nor even the YEAR before. The new Tundra was designed as a 2021 model and subtract 4 years from that (=2017), is when Toyota began settling on final designs for this program. The previous gen GM trucks could only be a reference, which were sold between April 2013 and 2018.

This was already testing with this new design back in early 2019 and already described by a few back then who had seen it uncovered at that time, so please remember that fact before implying they were influenced by the Sierra. No harm no foul if it's just noticing similarities vs actually accusing Toyota of copying them.

I've similar accusations against the 2022 Land Cruiser in terms of 2021 Escalade copycat accusations and they are shortsighted, because the 2022 Land Cruiser 300 design was as we call, frozen in mid-2018 and was redone at the very last hour from an earlier proposal set in 2016-2017. Delayed its own redesign for that reason by 1-2 years.

As a product planner that happens to be an enthusiast too, I am very anal about "looks like this..." comparisons or copycat accusations, because they cannot be fully substantiated without deep knowledge of product planning work on the given vehicle and are often not even grounded in reality.

With the first Tundra (nee T-150), Toyota blatantly copied the 1997 F-150 (implied), yet also had quietly accused Ford (of yore) of copying the aerodynamic aesthetic of the '89 Pickup (launched Oct 1988) and '93 T-100 (launched Nov 1992) itself ironically with the 1997 F-150 Styleside design (finalized Nov 1992) and simply got even. The '07 Tundra was at least original, while this is more so derivative of other Toyotas and of course, Ford Raptor (without a doubt). I am very Blue Oval, but in owning a Tacoma, fair is fair.

I can believe that indeed, because they looked at what their enthusiast set were doing years ago to their trucks and took the lead off of that. I however, hate the lack of originality in terms of everyone just copying the SVT Raptor design (to creatively meet regulations), ever since it debuted end of '08 and hit lots in summer of '09.

There is always a unique approach to be taken, that doesn't steal from a segment leader, who so many are willing to pile on and yet jack their own ideas anyway. I do like Toyota's approach taken on the red LEDs on the tailgate, as I haven't anyone else do that yet as of MY 2022.

Absolutely NOT! I have forever hated, the uninventive and derivative BS by the aftermarket and etc, which copied a clever solution designed by us in 2007 for the 2010 model year SVT Raptor, to meet DOT requirements for marker lights in regards to the extra width and Raptor-style mesh grilles with the lights within them.

P415 2010MY Ford F-150 SVT Raptor Design Freeze 1:1 Clay Styling Mockup - 2007

I can swallow it on the new Tundra TRD Pro and maybe the Rebel TRX emulating this setup, but seeing them on other Tacomas, 4Runners, GMs, and Nissans pisses me off like no other, yet are very quick to criticize Ford for gawd knows how many things. Honestly, be more original and use design modification ideas not unique to another production vehicle.

Satoshi grilles on here were quite nice, so even borrowing details from the halo TRD Pro models for your average SR5 annoys the hell out of me, when other more unique aftermarket solutions exists. Reminds me of 320i I4 BMWs pretending to be M3s or fake Raptors being your run of the mill XLT with copied OEM parts. I have seen great builds of base to mid-spec trucks that do not borrow unique OEM components from halo TRD Pro models nor the competition's own original ideas.

Click to expand...

im not reading all that

your toyota fanboyism is showing

JoeCOVA · Jun 21, 2021

Am I the only one who thinks the tires look disproportionately small?

Lt. Dangle · Jun 21, 2021

JoeCOVA said: ↑

Am I the only one who thinks the tires look disproportionately small?
Click to expand...

No. That really shows the mass of the flanks on this Tapout truck.

Deacon Blues · Jun 21, 2021

Carmaker1 said: ↑

Well, these from 2020 weren't renderings. They were exactly it. This shoudn't really be a surprise to anyone, as it has been a known entity on the exterior for months and the renderings were as I called it, lazy BS efforts.

REAL from 2020

BS Renderings from 2020

It is obviously not a concept, this is it. I would think people following news from time to time, would notice the difference between a pre-production model representative of the production vehicle versus a tarted up concept for the auto show rounds.

Now this kind of faulty logic is what I hate more than anything. We are all entitled to our opinions, by try not to lace it with opinionated factoids? Have some objectivity here. Toyota already had these testing over 2 years ago, in early 2019. Just because these mules were out and had the old cab, doesn't mean the design wasn't fully dialed in. The Job 1 date for these was originally August 3, 2020:

All the core design work in terms of styling hardpoints were locked in some 3 years ago and already testing by the end of 2018 on their proving grounds, HIDDEN from view. How does copying GMC work in your theory? Sometimes it's better not to make accusations off the cuff, if you can't prove them. No matter how funny it might sound to (some of) you. None of us go around copying each other, save for how many other half ton manufacturers just seem to borrow styling cues from the Raptor anyhow. Outside of that, everyone except Nissan is pretty original (see Titan, new Frontier).

I am sure the engineers and designers worked very hard on this starting 5-6 years back at Toyota in Texas, California, Ann Arbor MI, and Japan, to be randomly accused of copying a design that arrived AFTER they finished their own design work. You should note, automobiles are not finished at the last minute on this front.

I have said this for many years, but it just falls on deaf ears depending on the person I guess. On time redesign programs commit to the production design in all aspects 2 years before Job 1, for bigger vehicles add 6 months, for more complex efforts add another 6-12 months on top of that = 3.5 years at longest. For this truck, I am sure it will be a 4 year gap.

I've seen you mention TGNA-F quite a lot and respectfully look past it, but it's really TNGA-F meaning Toyota New Global Architecture - Frame. Just like for Lexus they use (TN)GA-L (Toyota New) Global Architecture - Luxury. I guess it's an honest typo, but seems to be often.

And who is that exactly ?

Um, whatever then. Anecdotal perspectives can vary immensely and it's easy to beat on Ford, yet so many love to copy...

Yeah, but it has been obvious enough for quite awhile. Anyone claiming those shots in red were just renderings or "FAKE" after seeing previous leaks, is terribly naive or being willfully obtuse. Toyota can easily drag their feet however long they want, but if there is a way to get around that earlier, it is up to the end user what they choose to trust or wait until solidly official.

That's a really weird question to ask, as it is the final design, no question about it and there are other leaks which confirmed that months ago. Especially considering that it takes years to develop a new vehicle and how a final design of a new model is always going to be set, well before you ever see anything of it in your orbit.

This new design was all defined over 3 years ago from what I remember, studying the development effort the past 5 years. Fully locked in by January 2019, for anyone to be accurately describing back in the spring of 2019 what it even looked like. A big Tacoma, with 4Runner influences. One could already even see it in these spy shots of a mule wearing the front and rear sheetmetal "skins", with a current gen cab in the middle.

January 2019 780B Tundra Program Mechanical Test Mule Winter Testing:

Honestly I really would expect the average person who logs into a forum, to at least understand the difference between a design study concept or veiled teaser show "prototype" against a pre-production vehicle not yet past Job 1, that is 99.9% the final design 99.9% of the time. The general public not so much, because they don't log in.

Toyota at this point have had years behind this, for anyone to be questioning whether or not it's the real deal. It is rather obvious at this point.

This 100%. Questions like that are just...(sighs). Between silly copycat accusations, which are unfair in terms benchmarking timelines or thinking automakers have limitless design changes on the fly and are not bound by strict lead times, the internet can be very disappointing. I get people have very busy lives, but wow.

I have done my best to make it very clear, design work, particularly sheetmetal/hardpoints, is designed years in advance and finalized no less than 2 years before you even see it. It's a done deal, not to mention being delayed by 14 months and getting designed quite a long time ago to be hearing comparisons to things GMC as well, that lean accusatory and not so much drawing coincidental similarities. Perhaps GM copied Toyota's own truck designs?

Yep. I don't even why people have any reason to be skeptical of the obvious right in front of them at this point. It is very easy to tell what is legitimate or final for production. There are always telltale signs. Look past the BS renderings, focus on media that is likely to be legitimate, instead of playing the "genius skeptic".

Why would anyone want that thing designed in 1989 and an unfortunate flop when it later came out in the 90s? Maybe 100 people would buy it at best. Half tons have just become lifted land yacht sedans of yore with more aggressive styling and not so much a rugged tool in single cab form. Read the room on what actually sells LOL.

LOL, what? Please consult your optometrist , as that looks nothing like the P702 F-150, a product I am very familiar with in each and every trim, plus upcoming 2024 MCA design work.

P702 F-150 1:1 Clay Final Design Review - November 17, 2017 Dearborn, MI (For MY 2021 F-150)

Our 2021 F-150 began production on October 12, 2020, nearly 36 months after we reached that point in the photos on November 17, 2017. Toyota took even longer in their case.

Toyota designed this new truck's new body in parallel until 2017-2018 for an October 2020 release and then fell behind an additional year due to hiccups.

Only the smallest of details changed between 2018 and now, that only vary by trim level. They didn't copy anyone, that had a new truck design introduced after the 2018 model year. You guys need to remember lead times exist in our industry and to know the timeline of a given product's general development, before making that critique. It's not like the cell phone market at all and much slower paced.

Opinions are opinions are styling similarities, but in actuality you really cannot copy things that do not exist to your knowledge when designing a new vehicle. In Toyota's defense, I had to make that observation, since our new P702 F-150 for 2021 was also accused of copying the 2019 GMC Sierra, which is false considering when we designed it and internally reached final design sign-off on November 17, 2017. GM revealed it well after that. I hate the 2019+ Sierra design anyway, compared to its predecessor that was more chiseled.

It might look like that to you in terms of your honest opinion, but like many others here, do you even know when this truck was actually designed for that matter? It wasn't yesterday nor last year nor even the YEAR before. The new Tundra was designed as a 2021 model and subtract 4 years from that (=2017), is when Toyota began settling on final designs for this program. The previous gen GM trucks could only be a reference, which were sold between April 2013 and 2018.

This was already testing with this new design back in early 2019 and already described by a few back then who had seen it uncovered at that time, so please remember that fact before implying they were influenced by the Sierra. No harm no foul if it's just noticing similarities vs actually accusing Toyota of copying them.

I've similar accusations against the 2022 Land Cruiser in terms of 2021 Escalade copycat accusations and they are shortsighted, because the 2022 Land Cruiser 300 design was as we call, frozen in mid-2018 and was redone at the very last hour from an earlier proposal set in 2016-2017. Delayed its own redesign for that reason by 1-2 years.

As a product planner that happens to be an enthusiast too, I am very anal about "looks like this..." comparisons or copycat accusations, because they cannot be fully substantiated without deep knowledge of product planning work on the given vehicle and are often not even grounded in reality.

With the first Tundra (nee T-150), Toyota blatantly copied the 1997 F-150 (implied), yet also had quietly accused Ford (of yore) of copying the aerodynamic aesthetic of the '89 Pickup (launched Oct 1988) and '93 T-100 (launched Nov 1992) itself ironically with the 1997 F-150 Styleside design (finalized Nov 1992) and simply got even. The '07 Tundra was at least original, while this is more so derivative of other Toyotas and of course, Ford Raptor (without a doubt). I am very Blue Oval, but in owning a Tacoma, fair is fair.

I can believe that indeed, because they looked at what their enthusiast set were doing years ago to their trucks and took the lead off of that. I however, hate the lack of originality in terms of everyone just copying the SVT Raptor design (to creatively meet regulations), ever since it debuted end of '08 and hit lots in summer of '09.

There is always a unique approach to be taken, that doesn't steal from a segment leader, who so many are willing to pile on and yet jack their own ideas anyway. I do like Toyota's approach taken on the red LEDs on the tailgate, as I haven't anyone else do that yet as of MY 2022.

Absolutely NOT! I have forever hated, the uninventive and derivative BS by the aftermarket and etc, which copied a clever solution designed by us in 2007 for the 2010 model year SVT Raptor, to meet DOT requirements for marker lights in regards to the extra width and Raptor-style mesh grilles with the lights within them.

P415 2010MY Ford F-150 SVT Raptor Design Freeze 1:1 Clay Styling Mockup - 2007

I can swallow it on the new Tundra TRD Pro and maybe the Rebel TRX emulating this setup, but seeing them on other Tacomas, 4Runners, GMs, and Nissans pisses me off like no other, yet are very quick to criticize Ford for gawd knows how many things. Honestly, be more original and use design modification ideas not unique to another production vehicle.

Satoshi grilles on here were quite nice, so even borrowing details from the halo TRD Pro models for your average SR5 annoys the hell out of me, when other more unique aftermarket solutions exists. Reminds me of 320i I4 BMWs pretending to be M3s or fake Raptors being your run of the mill XLT with copied OEM parts. I have seen great builds of base to mid-spec trucks that do not borrow unique OEM components from halo TRD Pro models nor the competition's own original ideas.

Click to expand...

JoeCOVA · Jun 21, 2021

Carmaker1 said: ↑

Well, these from 2020 weren't renderings. They were exactly it. This shoudn't really be a surprise to anyone, as it has been a known entity on the exterior for months and the renderings were as I called it, lazy BS efforts.

REAL from 2020

BS Renderings from 2020

It is obviously not a concept, this is it. I would think people following news from time to time, would notice the difference between a pre-production model representative of the production vehicle versus a tarted up concept for the auto show rounds.

Now this kind of faulty logic is what I hate more than anything. We are all entitled to our opinions, by try not to lace it with opinionated factoids? Have some objectivity here. Toyota already had these testing over 2 years ago, in early 2019. Just because these mules were out and had the old cab, doesn't mean the design wasn't fully dialed in. The Job 1 date for these was originally August 3, 2020:

All the core design work in terms of styling hardpoints were locked in some 3 years ago and already testing by the end of 2018 on their proving grounds, HIDDEN from view. How does copying GMC work in your theory? Sometimes it's better not to make accusations off the cuff, if you can't prove them. No matter how funny it might sound to (some of) you. None of us go around copying each other, save for how many other half ton manufacturers just seem to borrow styling cues from the Raptor anyhow. Outside of that, everyone except Nissan is pretty original (see Titan, new Frontier).

I am sure the engineers and designers worked very hard on this starting 5-6 years back at Toyota in Texas, California, Ann Arbor MI, and Japan, to be randomly accused of copying a design that arrived AFTER they finished their own design work. You should note, automobiles are not finished at the last minute on this front.

I have said this for many years, but it just falls on deaf ears depending on the person I guess. On time redesign programs commit to the production design in all aspects 2 years before Job 1, for bigger vehicles add 6 months, for more complex efforts add another 6-12 months on top of that = 3.5 years at longest. For this truck, I am sure it will be a 4 year gap.

I've seen you mention TGNA-F quite a lot and respectfully look past it, but it's really TNGA-F meaning Toyota New Global Architecture - Frame. Just like for Lexus they use (TN)GA-L (Toyota New) Global Architecture - Luxury. I guess it's an honest typo, but seems to be often.

And who is that exactly ?

Um, whatever then. Anecdotal perspectives can vary immensely and it's easy to beat on Ford, yet so many love to copy...

Yeah, but it has been obvious enough for quite awhile. Anyone claiming those shots in red were just renderings or "FAKE" after seeing previous leaks, is terribly naive or being willfully obtuse. Toyota can easily drag their feet however long they want, but if there is a way to get around that earlier, it is up to the end user what they choose to trust or wait until solidly official.

That's a really weird question to ask, as it is the final design, no question about it and there are other leaks which confirmed that months ago. Especially considering that it takes years to develop a new vehicle and how a final design of a new model is always going to be set, well before you ever see anything of it in your orbit.

This new design was all defined over 3 years ago from what I remember, studying the development effort the past 5 years. Fully locked in by January 2019, for anyone to be accurately describing back in the spring of 2019 what it even looked like. A big Tacoma, with 4Runner influences. One could already even see it in these spy shots of a mule wearing the front and rear sheetmetal "skins", with a current gen cab in the middle.

January 2019 780B Tundra Program Mechanical Test Mule Winter Testing:

Honestly I really would expect the average person who logs into a forum, to at least understand the difference between a design study concept or veiled teaser show "prototype" against a pre-production vehicle not yet past Job 1, that is 99.9% the final design 99.9% of the time. The general public not so much, because they don't log in.

Toyota at this point have had years behind this, for anyone to be questioning whether or not it's the real deal. It is rather obvious at this point.

This 100%. Questions like that are just...(sighs). Between silly copycat accusations, which are unfair in terms benchmarking timelines or thinking automakers have limitless design changes on the fly and are not bound by strict lead times, the internet can be very disappointing. I get people have very busy lives, but wow.

I have done my best to make it very clear, design work, particularly sheetmetal/hardpoints, is designed years in advance and finalized no less than 2 years before you even see it. It's a done deal, not to mention being delayed by 14 months and getting designed quite a long time ago to be hearing comparisons to things GMC as well, that lean accusatory and not so much drawing coincidental similarities. Perhaps GM copied Toyota's own truck designs?

Yep. I don't even why people have any reason to be skeptical of the obvious right in front of them at this point. It is very easy to tell what is legitimate or final for production. There are always telltale signs. Look past the BS renderings, focus on media that is likely to be legitimate, instead of playing the "genius skeptic".

Why would anyone want that thing designed in 1989 and an unfortunate flop when it later came out in the 90s? Maybe 100 people would buy it at best. Half tons have just become lifted land yacht sedans of yore with more aggressive styling and not so much a rugged tool in single cab form. Read the room on what actually sells LOL.

LOL, what? Please consult your optometrist , as that looks nothing like the P702 F-150, a product I am very familiar with in each and every trim, plus upcoming 2024 MCA design work.

P702 F-150 1:1 Clay Final Design Review - November 17, 2017 Dearborn, MI (For MY 2021 F-150)

Our 2021 F-150 began production on October 12, 2020, nearly 36 months after we reached that point in the photos on November 17, 2017. Toyota took even longer in their case.

Toyota designed this new truck's new body in parallel until 2017-2018 for an October 2020 release and then fell behind an additional year due to hiccups.

Only the smallest of details changed between 2018 and now, that only vary by trim level. They didn't copy anyone, that had a new truck design introduced after the 2018 model year. You guys need to remember lead times exist in our industry and to know the timeline of a given product's general development, before making that critique. It's not like the cell phone market at all and much slower paced.

Opinions are opinions are styling similarities, but in actuality you really cannot copy things that do not exist to your knowledge when designing a new vehicle. In Toyota's defense, I had to make that observation, since our new P702 F-150 for 2021 was also accused of copying the 2019 GMC Sierra, which is false considering when we designed it and internally reached final design sign-off on November 17, 2017. GM revealed it well after that. I hate the 2019+ Sierra design anyway, compared to its predecessor that was more chiseled.

It might look like that to you in terms of your honest opinion, but like many others here, do you even know when this truck was actually designed for that matter? It wasn't yesterday nor last year nor even the YEAR before. The new Tundra was designed as a 2021 model and subtract 4 years from that (=2017), is when Toyota began settling on final designs for this program. The previous gen GM trucks could only be a reference, which were sold between April 2013 and 2018.

This was already testing with this new design back in early 2019 and already described by a few back then who had seen it uncovered at that time, so please remember that fact before implying they were influenced by the Sierra. No harm no foul if it's just noticing similarities vs actually accusing Toyota of copying them.

I've similar accusations against the 2022 Land Cruiser in terms of 2021 Escalade copycat accusations and they are shortsighted, because the 2022 Land Cruiser 300 design was as we call, frozen in mid-2018 and was redone at the very last hour from an earlier proposal set in 2016-2017. Delayed its own redesign for that reason by 1-2 years.

As a product planner that happens to be an enthusiast too, I am very anal about "looks like this..." comparisons or copycat accusations, because they cannot be fully substantiated without deep knowledge of product planning work on the given vehicle and are often not even grounded in reality.

With the first Tundra (nee T-150), Toyota blatantly copied the 1997 F-150 (implied), yet also had quietly accused Ford (of yore) of copying the aerodynamic aesthetic of the '89 Pickup (launched Oct 1988) and '93 T-100 (launched Nov 1992) itself ironically with the 1997 F-150 Styleside design (finalized Nov 1992) and simply got even. The '07 Tundra was at least original, while this is more so derivative of other Toyotas and of course, Ford Raptor (without a doubt). I am very Blue Oval, but in owning a Tacoma, fair is fair.

I can believe that indeed, because they looked at what their enthusiast set were doing years ago to their trucks and took the lead off of that. I however, hate the lack of originality in terms of everyone just copying the SVT Raptor design (to creatively meet regulations), ever since it debuted end of '08 and hit lots in summer of '09.

There is always a unique approach to be taken, that doesn't steal from a segment leader, who so many are willing to pile on and yet jack their own ideas anyway. I do like Toyota's approach taken on the red LEDs on the tailgate, as I haven't anyone else do that yet as of MY 2022.

Absolutely NOT! I have forever hated, the uninventive and derivative BS by the aftermarket and etc, which copied a clever solution designed by us in 2007 for the 2010 model year SVT Raptor, to meet DOT requirements for marker lights in regards to the extra width and Raptor-style mesh grilles with the lights within them.

P415 2010MY Ford F-150 SVT Raptor Design Freeze 1:1 Clay Styling Mockup - 2007

I can swallow it on the new Tundra TRD Pro and maybe the Rebel TRX emulating this setup, but seeing them on other Tacomas, 4Runners, GMs, and Nissans pisses me off like no other, yet are very quick to criticize Ford for gawd knows how many things. Honestly, be more original and use design modification ideas not unique to another production vehicle.

Satoshi grilles on here were quite nice, so even borrowing details from the halo TRD Pro models for your average SR5 annoys the hell out of me, when other more unique aftermarket solutions exists. Reminds me of 320i I4 BMWs pretending to be M3s or fake Raptors being your run of the mill XLT with copied OEM parts. I have seen great builds of base to mid-spec trucks that do not borrow unique OEM components from halo TRD Pro models nor the competition's own original ideas.

Click to expand...

Did Ford copy Aston or did Aston copy Ford?

Sharpish · Jun 21, 2021

I saw Toyota released an official photo today.

Sharpish · Jun 21, 2021

Malvolio · Jun 21, 2021

Sharpish said: ↑

Click to expand...

Okay, fine. I think it’s fine. But damn, I just watched a walk around of the new 300mile range electric F150 and want that so much more than this. You can hook it up to your house—in theory—and run it as a backup generator that lasts 3+ days! Super useful during a tailgate party or a storm or a Texas Special Grid Event.

Snaeper · Jun 21, 2021

Lexus LX750h specs are reported to be 480hp and 642lb/ft of torque.

If the Tundra also gets that powertrain, I don't think there will be too many complaints, especially since it'll likely come much lower in the rev range.

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/21/lexus-lx-luxury-suv-next-generation-future-models/

Toyko Joe · Jun 21, 2021

Snaeper said: ↑

Lexus LX750h specs are reported to be 480hp and 642lb/ft of torque.

If the Tundra also gets that powertrain, I don't think there will be too many complaints, especially since it'll likely come much lower in the rev range.

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/21/lexus-lx-luxury-suv-next-generation-future-models/
Click to expand...

The LX750h isn't even an actual future vehicle yet...those numbers are from a tweet or similar source. I would like to see them posted though. The sources I found claimed 10spd transmission also.

Sharpish · Jun 21, 2021

Snaeper said: ↑

Lexus LX750h specs are reported to be 480hp and 642lb/ft of torque.

If the Tundra also gets that powertrain, I don't think there will be too many complaints, especially since it'll likely come much lower in the rev range.

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/21/lexus-lx-luxury-suv-next-generation-future-models/
Click to expand...

Now imagine adding another 350+ torque from a EV battery. Those are 1 Ton turbo diesel numbers.

Snaeper · Jun 21, 2021

Sharpish said: ↑

Now imagine adding another 350+ torque from a EV battery. Those are 1 Ton turbo diesel numbers.
Click to expand...

Should be noted that that *is* the Hybrid powertrain. 3.5TT Hybrid. It'll be interesting to see if that's the case.

Electric motors are not just basic addition of torque to the motor, as the gas and hybrid power curves overlap.

Sharpish · Jun 21, 2021

Snaeper said: ↑

Should be noted that that *is* the Hybrid powertrain. 3.5TT Hybrid. It'll be interesting to see if that's the case.

Electric motors are not just basic addition of torque to the motor, as the gas and hybrid power curves overlap.
Click to expand...

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. Imagine if the tundra was a plug in with 200 miles EV only range. Great for commuting and great when it’s time to work.

JoeCOVA · Jun 21, 2021

Sharpish said: ↑

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. Imagine if the tundra was a plug in with 200 miles EV only range. Great for commuting and great when it’s time to work.
Click to expand...

That’s a ton of battery weight, you’re looking at 1500 lbs of battery on an already 6000 lb truck.

AlexB · Jun 22, 2021

Maybe the grille is too big but I think the truck looks good. Depending on the specs of the hybrid I might have to go the Tundra route when I upgrade my 08 taco.

Malvolio · Jun 22, 2021

Sharpish said: ↑

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. Imagine if the tundra was a plug in with 200 miles EV only range. Great for commuting and great when it’s time to work.
Click to expand...

To have that range you would have to have a big traction battery and electric motors as the means of GO, with a small gas backup power plant (range extender) to recharge the battery on the road. This has been done in modern vehicles and works fine too. Maybe that’s the best option for “adventure trucks” that have drivers wanting range extension.

Carmaker1 · Jun 22, 2021

JaCado said: ↑

TLDR
Click to expand...

Am I supposed to be apparently disappointed?

hiPSI said: ↑

I have a newer 2019 Tundra. I like it and it looks like the 6' 4" 260 lb MMA fighters I watched the other night. This Tundra looks like the 6'4" 205 lb MMA fighters. I like the new one too.
Click to expand...

Yeah, good analogy. It's also like it went from being a sumo wrestler, to being an MMA fighter. The Tacoma influence is just too strong and not in a bad way, but it's both offensive and enticing to look at. A V6 fits this truck.

MGMDesertTaco said: ↑

Maybe, but the new Tundra looks like the MMA fighters that got their face rearranged.

This is the best looking ram to date. Stance is perfect.
Click to expand...

Yes, even as a Raptor guy, I gotta say it's beastly looking without looking downright scary like this. It's very clean looking.

New 2021 Raptor Ecoboost is not as aggressive as my 2019 nor even my 2 old 6.2s. However on a side note, the TRX interior is overrated in my opinion, but still decent. I've sat inside a few and they aren't bad, but not ever so amazing.

VanGo3 said: ↑

Looks like Toyota is following the Nissan path: make your truck look like an F150.
Click to expand...

How so? Outside of outgoing Raptor, I doubt they copied F-150 (previous generation). This is 90% Toyota here, especially Tacoma cab and bed. Like a bigger Tacoma TRD Pro with a different front end, inspired by 4Runner and maybe Volvo XC90 headlights.

The 2016 Nissan Titan was blatant copying for sure.

coopcooper said: ↑

im not reading all that

your toyota fanboyism is showing
Click to expand...

Haha wow, you are not very observant then? I am very objective, in which I even took such an effort in favor of Toyota. I shouldn't even be on a Toyota TRUCK forum to tell you the truth, even if I own 2 Toyota pickups. It's rather uncomfortable, because professionally it is a conflict of interest. I don't believe in partisanship, just objectivity. Ford pays my bills, Toyota gets me everywhere I need to go in the developing world and makes a nice stick shift 4x4 toy in the meantime. I don't like to make such a thing obvious.

To me, Toyota is an underdog who will never best the F-150 in sales and recognition with the Tundra. In an effort to be objective, I don't mind fending off unfair borderline accusations, borne out of likely superficial observation and not even asking the Toyota team members, what they did, when they did it and how they did it. Anything newer than 3 years, doesn't count, as this truck got delayed after design was done. (This is why they should keep it all secret and stop sharing early with untrustworthy folks, if they don't have anything to release in full yet.)

I definitely believe our P552 Raptor launched in January 2017 (revealed as a 99.9% prototype at 2015 NAIAS) was copied by Toyota a little bit for the 2022 Tundra TRD Pro, but the non-Raptor P552 F-150 for 2015 also borrowed from the 2007 Tundra and many of you probably said similar in January 2013, when you saw the Atlas Concept at NAIAS.

Ford Atlas Concept - January 15, 2013 at NAIAS Detroit

2007 Tundra CrewMax Limited (2006)

I had started my career then and was about to work for JaguarLR in UK, but went to Detroit and remember the snarky digging at Ford for allegedly copying pre-2014 Tundra with the Atlas (preview).

The next month? Toyota showed the 2014 Tundra at Chicago and then they also got accused of copying Ford's then current interior design, introduced in 2008 for MY2009. It was LOL worthy for me to be honest and accurate, as they were trading punches with each other on the design front.

2007 Tundra CrewMax Limited Interior (2006 Press Photo)

2009MY Ford F-150 Platinum Crew Cab 4x4 (November 2007 Press Photo)

2014 Tundra 1794 Edition (December 2012 Press Photo)

I am honestly no fanboy, but thanks for trying LOL. I genuinely don't play favorites and quite indecisive on choice, but will admit I am personally rarely fond of GM pickups against Toyota, Ram, and Ford.

JoeCOVA said: ↑

Did Ford copy Aston or did Aston copy Ford?
Click to expand...

Tongue in cheek question I'm guessing, but tell you the truth, Aston copied Ford in the '70s.

Ford did copy the Aston Martin DB4 though in 1962 by designing the first Mustang. Won in the end, by buying out AM many years later and doing it all over again with 2013 Fusion and 2015 Mustang.

'61 DB4

Mustang Mockup - Aug 16, 1962

Fastback Mustang Mockup - April 2, 1963

But I'm sure you were joking.

Snaeper said: ↑

Lexus LX750h specs are reported to be 480hp and 642lb/ft of torque.

If the Tundra also gets that powertrain, I don't think there will be too many complaints, especially since it'll likely come much lower in the rev range.

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/21/lexus-lx-luxury-suv-next-generation-future-models/
Click to expand...

I have known about this powertrain since 2018-19, but did wonder what the nomenclature would be and haven't seen Toyota secure a trademark for it yet? It's really odd, since they do that at least 2 years ahead of redesigns give or take.

Toyota's attorney on file for patents and trademarks, haven't exactly filed for LX 750h yet, but only LX 600 (V35A-FTS TTV6) and LX 500d (new Land Cruiser 3.3 F33A diesel). I first heard of LX 600 in 2019 and LX 500d shortly afterward. Maybe it won't be offered at launch and maybe end of 2022/2023? Tundra is going to offer this powertrain in Pro and other upmarket trims only starting in spring 2022 I am hearing, while gas engine will be out in December 2021.

LRockPro · Jun 22, 2021

Vtx render 37’s

MGMDesertTaco · Jun 22, 2021

LRockPro said: ↑

Vtx render 37’s

Click to expand...

I'm really starting to like these new Tundra's with bigger tires. I may have to swap my Tacoma for one. Can we get a rendering in black or bright radiant red though? I never understood why Toyota discontinued the radiant red.

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