Creationism vs. Evolution

So your answer is 'God did it.' By using the label 'god' how do you advance the argument or add to the understanding of the universe?


Ultimately, we have to come to one of two conclusions. Either God [or the universe] has always been or it came from nothing. I suggest that 'it has always been' makes more sense to me, but reasonable minds can differ. But why posit a supernatural explanation without evidence. It seems quite believable to me that the universe, in one form or another, has simply always been. It may be constantly changing, transforming, expanding or whatever, but that makes more sense to me than to suppose it suddenly sprang into being from utter nothingness.

Saying 'god caused it' does not answer a single question. It simply puts a different name on 'the universe.'

 

I completely understand what your saying, and that's why I didn't specify one way or another.

As we all know, there is unfortunately no way to prove either belief system (evolution, creation or somewhere in between) without reasonable doubt. It's been the challenge of man since the beginning of recorded history, and always will be.

One thing I think everyone will agree on is, we have this natural desire built into us to worship a higher being. This again is evident since the beginning of recorded history. Every civilization has had some "god" of some type.

My question is why? If we evolved from a simple microorganism, then where did this natural desire to give credit to a higher being come from?

Every living thing is born with natural instincts. Trees know how to grow roots, birds know how fly, carnivores know how to hunt for food... Without being born with these instincts, all of these things would be extinct.

We are born with natural instincts. We are born with the understanding of right and wrong. We are born with a desire to give credit who or what is responsible for our existence.

Why? Its not necessary for our survival. No other living thing spends its entire life trying to understand why its alive.

Why would this natural instinct be ingrained in us if we evolved from a simple organism? Or, if we did evolve from a simple organism, why don't we have a instinct that tells us this?

 

You claim to believe that the universe has no beginning yet you can't explain the basis for your belief other than it just "makes more sense" to you. You demand that christians back up their beliefs with facts but you can't back up your own belief with facts. Speaking of ridiculous statements, I'm still waiting on some better answers to my questions to you. And don't just say the science book says this or that so it must be true. I'm sure that you will have some condescending little comeback but I GUARANTEE you it wont have any concrete answers. We have been given free will by God Almighty to choose what to believe, you chose one thing and I chose another. By the way, if you are really trying to trip up christians, you're going about it all wrong. Predestination is a much tougher subject to explain.

 

I disagree with the comparison of creationism with evolution. Creationism, like belief in god, is not falsifiable. There is no way to prove C false since 'God made it that way' answers all evidence and argument.
Evolution is falsifiable. It could be disproved, but hasn't. In the 150 years since Origin of the Species was published, the data uncovered every year supports it. We see the process of evolution daily. Animal breeding is simply man made selection. Darwin and his culture understood this. That is why he referred to it as 'natural selection.'

Seriously, I don't mean to insult you, but you really can't compare C to E unless you are wholly ignorant about E. Read any modern text on the subject. Dawkins' The Greatest Show on Earth is an informative and entertaining way to start.

 

Cntstan, as I predicted, you don't answer the contradictions other than to say in general eyewitnesses disagree. I guess then you are conceding the Bible is not the word of god, but a typical human endeavor, replete with the typical differences humans have when the try to describe the same event.

If the Bible is the word of God, i would expect it to be perfect, flawless, beautiful beyond human ability, and not read like what it is [the OT in particular] a history of one particular culture, the Hebrews, justifying themselves, claiming to be the 'chosen people' and claiming 'GOD' told them to steal land, and kill their enemies and their enemies' wives and children.

Mark was written more than 40 years after those events. Matthew and Luke are written later and are obviously trying to answer some mistakes they thought Mark made. None of these are eyewitness accounts.

The relevance of 'copies of copies' with no originals is that none of this so called 'evidence' would be admitted in a court of law. I refer to the latter because that is the accepted way, in today's culture, we prove things.

I'm a former lay missionary. I've read the Bible thru and read more books that try to support its reliability than I have that point out its faults. I've looked and studied both sides. I have a personal history similar to Bart Ehrman, who went to theological seminary to be better able to defend his faith. Like him, my education showed me I was wrong.

If you're serious about investigating the issue honestly, read some of his books. If you're interested in the Physics of the origin of the universe, read Victor Stengar or Stephen Hawking.

You want me to show the basis for my opinion that the universe has always existed. All I said was that one has to believe that, or believe that it came from nothing. Reasonable minds can differ as to which makes more sense. I simply frame the issue, and point out that the Christian has exactly the same choice about God. Either he came from nothing or he has always been. My point was not to prove either proposition, but only to say that substituting 'God' for 'Universe' changes nothing but the spelling in terms of proving the existence of a god.

 

i'm not interested in trying to disprove my beliefs any more than you are. just because Hawking is super smart does not mean that he can explain how we came to be with absolute certainty. i love listening to him talk about the universe and all of the awesome things that happen out there. it truly is a mind boggling place and i think we both appreciate it for different reasons. i don't mind debating this issue with you but it could easily become a full time job and i've got work to do so off i go. have a good one DanT

 

I use the KJV and the Itallics is where the scholars that translated it from the greek and hebrew into English could not get a direct translation and therefore they added the transition words to make it easier to read. The reason they did that is because that God placed a curse on anyone who changes His word so they did it so that people would know that it was added by man to make it readable.

Remember the single biggest tool the Devil uses is to put a question mark on God's word.
"Ye hath God said"

Simply asking the question "did God really say that?" slipping that little bit of doubt in a person's mind is all that is needed to destroy a person's faith.

 

Evolution occurs...it's not something that you can choose to believe in or not. Creationism on the other hand, has no scientific backing what-so-ever. Basically all of the major religions that are widely accepted today as "normal" started as cults. Their beginings are no different than the cults that were started by Jim Jones, Charlie Manson, and countless others. Yes, many people choose to accept them now, but they still started as cults...characterized by unorthodox beliefs and the total devotion to one person or being.

 

Show me that evolution occurs.

 

really? Do you live in a hole? Have you ever taken even the most basic biology class?

 

i believe that what we have here on earth is too perfectly placed and calculated to be happenstance. the fact that scientists say that if the earth were a foot closer or farther away from the sun, we would either freeze or burn, seems too much like it was considered and thought about before it happened. i mean just think about the human body and all it is able to do and overcome. the way the brain works, the heart keeps beating, everything works in perfect rhythm for it to be just a case of "well we learned from our past creatures". it's way too perfectly thought out.

so that being said i think you know where i stand.

 

Evolution is a very observable fact. Type "evidence of evolution" into Google and you will get about 1 million hits on it. Or, go to your local museum of natural history, they should be able to lay fossils of species from different time periods displaying how they evolved.

Evolution can no longer be argued. It occurs. In almost every species.

 

then here's something you might find interesting>>> http://www.allaboutscience.org/evolution-of-man-video.htm
this thread is too long to be able to read it all if you just came in, and this link has been buried in my posts a couple times I think.

 

how do we know this was the only time life attempted to form? What if this has been trying to happen for 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years and this time it worked after countless failures of the improper balance? Now it doesnt seem as random and perfect. - we have all done simple things in our lives that we have said, "I could never do that again". so what if this is another one of those instances?

 

Being a foot closer to the sun would not make the Earth burn up. In fact, the Earth has an elliptical orbit around the sun (minor, but still elliptical) and so it's distance to it is constantly changing, and by more than a foot.

I'm not trying to argue against your beliefs, just trying to clear up a misconception.

Although, when I look out at the stars, and all the infinite possibilities there are, I find it extremely easy to take all you said about it all having to be thought out and completely give it up to being the random and crazy nature of the Universe. If you're going to have an infinite number of possible outcomes and events, of course you'll end up with what we have here eventually.

 

Yes it can be argued.....and no it doesn't!


I don't like to dissect words out of statements too often, but did you mean to say 'almost'?

 

yea with the measurement, i realize thats wrong, but i've heard some number that was really small cited before.

i didn't realize what i said was gonna strike a match like it did lol. i more than understand where every individual can gather all sorts of beliefs from. and believe me no one's going to insult or offend by providing differing view points so don't feel like you've done so. it is very interesting to hear what everyone has to say though!

 

Um. Okay.

I meant to word it that almost every species has shown demonstrable signs of evolution. But there are many (mainly insects, fish and some reptiles) that have lived in their environments so long, or were so well adapted that they had little or no reason to evolve. So their fossils across time show no actual evidence of evolution. Examples include the cockroach and certain species of crocodile.

 

scientists say the earth is warming


scientists say the earth is cooling


I haven't read these articles above, but my point is that our world, and media, constantly pound into the heads of unknowing and trusting people whatever they want. This definately goes for churches and religions too. Do your own research if you want the truths.

They can always start it with the word, 'science or scientist/s', and we tend to think it is the gospel.....sorry for the pun.

 

Awesome! Me too.

I've thought long and hard about my beliefs and I've become quite comfortable with my conclusions. Which is nice, because it means I can not give a flying crap what other people want to believe. (or want me to believe) I do enjoy hearing other people's reasoning, though, and the methods they use to come by their conclusions.

Diff'rnt strokes for diff'rnt folks and all that...