Front quick strut defect?

Only on the 01-04 yes are they progressive the many other variation of spring are all constant rate

 

Fuck, me!

I just stopped by AutoZone and compared the Tacoma and the 4Runner assemblies side by side. oddly enough the 4Runners are actually an inch shorter! I have no idea what my next step is, probably the goddamn Kings.

 

Yeah, just looked at the quick struts on RockAuto, and the 4Runner ones actually show to be about 2" shorter than the Tacoma ones.

If it were me, and I didn't have the original springs, I'd have one of the vendors here assemble some OME 2880 springs onto either some 4600's or 5100's set at stock height and go from there. Wheelers shows a price of right at $500 for a pair of 5100's assembled. This *might* result in some moderate front lift. If it is too short, you can move the spring perches up a notch. Or, it might ride rougher than you want since the springs are 500 lbs/in rather than the stock 460-465. OME Nitrochargers would run almost $600 for the pair, which is another option.

Kings appear to come with 600 lbs/in springs, that seems a bit high unless you are running an ARB bumper or something. I'm sure you could order with different springs, though.

If I had the original springs in good condition, I'd order some KYB's and top mounts from RockAuto, swap the springs over and see what happens. That's less than $150 for a decent coilover if it actually works. The specs on the Bilsteins seem to match the specs on the KYB's and others as far as extended and compressed length. The variable here seems to be spring rate and length, and maybe spring perch location giving proper amount of preload.

 

So I believe you stated it was not (or may not be, out of respect to others' take on it) so much about spring load as far as something like the monroe's as they are 460, as it is the spring height, correct? Did that make sense?

Here - lemme try again -
Spring load matters -
Spring height matters -
Since I know my original coilovers spring load is correct for my truck, then does it follow that I could measure the height to determine if they have a decent chance of working? Of course I would have to find the spec for that.

 

Yes spring height (the physical height of the spring) matters.
Yes the preload (how much the coil spring is compressed between the top plate, and spring perch) matters.

For shocks with fixed perches / non adjustable collars, stuffing a longer spring in will result in higher preload, and ultimately a higher ride height.

Spacer lifts, essentially add additional preload to the fixed/non adjustable coilover without changing the coil length.

If you have a stock spring, you could measure the height of it, but you also need to know the distance from the top plate to the perch. If that distance is different, then the preload would be different for the same height spring.

 

The quick strut specs that are available just list the spring rate and compressed/uncompressed length of the assembly. Those specs seem to check out. What they don't list is how long the spring is, and how much preload is on the spring. Typical OEM preload seems to be about 2 inches (at least on 2nd/3rd gens, really not sure on 1st). At 2 inches preload and a 465 lbs/in spring rate, that means that each installed strut will hold 930 pounds before it compresses any further. So, how much the truck drops into the shock travel is a combination of spring rate and preload. Preload is determined by spring length and perch positions on the shock. This preload will affect your ride height. If you have zero preload and the truck drops 3" into the shock travel when you put it on the ground, that means it would only drop 1" if the springs were preloaded by 2". I suspect that this might be the issue since all the aftermarket shock lengths seem to be in that 18"-18.65" range.

If you have your original coilovers, you could measure how long the spring is as installed. Then if you remove the spring, measure how long it is when not installed. The difference is the preload.

And what he said ^.

 

Wanted to share. This is for '01's. Provided by Monroe. Probably as a way to get me off the phone, as my questions continued & the rep could not come up with a reason why the Monroes failed. If someone wants me to upload as a PDF, please give me a tutorial. TW includes PDF's in the list, however there was no option to insert into post that I could see.

These are Toyota's guidelines - the right way to measure ride height
Maybe it's already on TW somewhere, however a search of titles did not bring it up -
Some may find reasons it's flawed. Some may find it useful.

 

Thank you.... The way you explain things clicks for me.
Helps me make better decisions.
I love the learning.
I can pay it forward.
&, especially important when doing things that have safety involved, understanding the why's & how's helps keep me focused.

 

That is a great way to measure it. I actually like that better than hub to fender like a lot of people do, and this gives you the actual specs.

 

I went to the site he pulled it off of & unfortunately it seems to be a subscribe type. Maybe a way for anyone to get their specs is to call Monroe & pester the crap out of the rep
Another top secret Toyota thing. The info is out there though....

 

LOL, are you talking about TIS? I have paid for a short subscription in the past, and I just download all the PDF's for my current vehicles so I have them later. I haven't done it in a while, but I have 3 newer vehicles I should do that for. I guess I have gone through a lot of Toyotas. It's good info to have when you need it.

 

This was off prodemand.com. On the bottom of the doc.

Also, I had run into a few threads on here ( @koditten & others) about this ride height thing. I looked up the specs & noticed the same thing as you regarding the 4Runner shocks. Funny thing though, is a member who tried the 4Runner coilovers posted the before & after pics & his front was actually higher with them installed.

 

I just compared a Monroe to a Toyota & whilst just by eyeballing it the springs seem to be the same-ish length, the stock has 11 coils & the Monroe has 10.

 

Called Monroe & he said something about can’t really compare them that way because of how the coil is wound, etc.

Monroe spring length when removed is “about” 14.5.

Another Kristi comparison - stock is more tightly wound, to which he just responded “mmmm....”

 

Well, he's not wrong. Different wire diameters or materials may result in different winds for the same length and spring rate. How long did you measure with it installed? That 14.5" is about what I've seen all the aftermarkets come in at. Only way to really know if the Monroe truly is that length is to remove it, unfortunately. I've had to use 2 sets of the scary spring compressors to do Tacoma and 4Runner shocks, it isn't the most fun I've had.

 

Unfortunately I had not yet begun my education regarding springs, so I did not measure them.

 

I’m thinking this is too much rust to reuse? & if so, any recommendations for vendors to call for a pre-assembled?
& suggestions have been bilstein & KYB. The latter would be the gas-a-just? I got’a get cracking, especially if going that route. Friday afternoon & all.

 

Honestly I've heard that cheap AM coil assemblies suck ass, and never seem to work well. This thread seems to validate that.

What I would do is just buy an OEM Toyota shock, they're about $130 bucks a piece, rent a spring compressor & swap your old springs onto the new shock with your OEM tophat. Do NOT use any aftermarket top hats. Obviously this solution only works if your springs aren't completely shot, if they are then you can still get OEM ones at $181 a pop.

I really don't think that you need to spend $1,000+ to get fancy adjustable shocks just for stock ride height. But I do think it's reasonable to say that you need to lower expectations for cheap aftermarket quick strut assemblies. They are bad news and for the convenience of it being assembled you lose a lot of quality in that price range.

Personally I would pony up the extra $130 and just get new OEM stuff and be done with it, if you can't just pick the best AM brand and install it and quit worrying about all the measurements. As long as it rides better and isn't sky high you should be happy.

 

The old school thinking back when 1gens were still on the lot was the yellow TRD shocks were essentially the Bilsteins but the TRD ones were contracted by Toyota to be a bit thinner to make them cheaper. Somebody correct this if wrong but that was the story I heard and I never had to second-guess it since. Not to beat a dead horse till its springs need another replacement, but isn't the Bilstein considered an upgrade (i.e. the TRD choice) from the Toyota stock option?

Also since I'm here-- I have watched a few sets of Bilstein and KYB Gas-A-Just (white with blue letters i think) on a few 1gens and the KYB seemed to have a markedly shorter lifetime.

 

Yes, the TRD package shocks were Bilstein shocks, but I don't recall the specific model. I thought my original window sticker might say, but it just lists "O\R SUSPENSION"