No more Moab group rides

Moab is its own worst enemy. One of the few 100% tourism dependent places where every single storefront makes it crystal clear about their feelings towards the fucking tourists.

 

Or you could just move to the East Coast where a lot of offroading has already been legislated to death. It always starts the same way.

 

Rzr and side by side riders can suck it. Being somebody who lives and grew up in Utah I have seen rzr dickheads destroy a lot of great roads and trails and just great areas in general. They move in like a herd of retarded cows with no master they just see one idiot tramp all over everything and without batting an eye they follow. The worst part about it is they also pull up with there huge diesel trucks and fifth wheels and destroy camping areas by making huge circles of campers driving over all the vegetation in site. Don’t even get me started on how it seems every sxs driver blindly hauls ass around every corner when driving down a single track.
stick to the dunes where you can drive over everything or go educate yourself on the Etiquette of off-road driving. Rant over lol

 

You realize this only applies to using them in town, right? None of the rules for the trails and public lands are changing.

IMO - the title of this thread and the title of that article are very misleading.

 

As stated before, not all SxS users are the source of these issues, but unfortunately they do attract a group of people who are willfully uneducated on off-road etiquette. I think this is in part some of those purchasing and also in part the massive rental market in places like Moab and the San Juan Mountains not being educated on off-road etiquette and not bothering trying to get educated. Based on what I've heard and seen these issues have been brought to the SxS community's attention that there are issues that are being caused (or at least blamed) by them and there seems to be a response of "We don't care" by enough of them that the response is to start implementing regulations. Hopefully there is no need for these regulations to remain permanent. But if the overall response (or at least the loudest response) of that community is to brush off any complaints then you can't expect anything less then having regulations imposed.

 

I disagree.

I used to live in a tourist town. Our town's income was tourism and meth, so I guess not 100% reliant on tourism, but close enough.

Tourist towns in large part embrace the tourism, but there's a point at which the tourists are no longer being respectful of the town in which they are visiting. In the town I grew up in, we largely didn't "see" most tourists. It was only a problem when the tour buses would stop in the middle of the road and let 85 people wander aimlessly down the streets.

Moab is cool, but that place is a freakin zoo, and while most people are kind and respectful, it doesn't take that many to make life hell for everyone. I've been in and out of a lot of shops in Moab, and I was rarely ever treated as though I weren't welcome. But then again, I never come ripping up on a SXS blasting Nickelback.

We, as enthusiasts, are our own worst enemy.

Given the consistent increase in noise complaints (during all hours of the night, btw) over the last several years from residents shows there is definitely a faction of these "tourists" who aren't being respectful of the town or its residents. I can easily imagine how infuriating that is for the residents who live near trailheads and have to deal with people going on night runs.

It's evident that self policing hasn't worked. If it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

I’ve only been to Moab four times over past 35 years but I’ve always felt welcomed and treated well, at every business in town.

 

I agree that a disproportionate % of side by side riders are not knowledgable or seem to care about trails, rules, safety, etc. I think it starts with the fact that it doesn't take much skill to drive them, and they are easily rented. Anyone can hop in and head out! Yeehaw! Little forethought is required.

I ride dirt bikes and 4wd my Tacoma and Jeep. Dirt bikes take skill on the trails or you die. And, 4 wheeling takes skill to avoid destroying your vehicle, which you likely want to drive home. Self preservation is much more at the forefront of those activities.

Not sure of the solution, but I believe in more education and qualification for side by sides, at minimum.

And, what's the deal with stereos always blasting on side by sides? It's crazy. Then again, maybe it's a well thought out safety precaution so others know they are coming down the trail?

 

As a dirt bike rider I Agee. SXS attract a lot of folks who don’t have the reaction time and skill required on a Moto, they also don’t have to the same responsibility of driving a full street legal 4x4 because they view them as toys. The problem is they frequently fill up or block public multi use trail parking areas because they have to trailer their expensive toys out with their huge diesels. They also often treat these public trails like their private racecourse. They outnumber 4x4s these days.

 

I live in a pretty remote area that is very much an offroad paradise. I couldn't defend these numbers in court, but it seems to me that anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 of folks have some kind of jalopy parked out by the old barn, whether it's an old Bronco or a clapped out Taco, and even the occasional hillbilly monster truck Camaro or Jetta to Pickup conversion. It's a lot like I remember the high desert in SoCal being years and years ago - it seemed like everyone had a dune machine of some sort out there, and it's the same here for 'frodin.

Over the last few years, the SXS crowd has started to move in more heavily every season, and they are absolutely a scourge. A lot of people will take offense to this accusation, but I'm not going to pretend like it isn't really the case. If you've got a SXS and you AREN'T a dickhead, don't get offended, I'm not talking about you.

As others have said, it may not be most SXS users causing problems, but most of the problems are caused by SXS users. Even if you don't notice the route markers put up by the rental outfits in the area, you can tell instantly what trails see a lot of SXS traffic because they are always TRASHED. I've also learned to dread the start of rental season because it means there will be a 24/7 stream of SXSs going 50 through town where 35 is posted, throwing beer cans in yards, and generally just not minding the fact that where they're vacationing is where other people live.

Private lands are getting closed off for the first time ever, private/public land partnerships are disbanding, favorite routes are going permit-only, and multi-use trails are getting cut to hike/bike/horse, and I can tell you that it is 100% because of SXS traffic.

I think a large part of the problem with SXSs comes down to two things, and I would also like to point out that these things are NOT exclusive to SXSs, they just happen to be visible to us in this case because we are directly impacted. The same problems crop up on public shooting ranges, waterways, open entry races, you name it. The difference is that SXSs are relatively recently becoming a problem because of their relatively recent explosion in popularity, and there hasn't been enough catching up with how the rest of the public handles them.

1) SXSs can be cheaper to buy and maintain, and easier to handle than traditional 4x4s, which puts tougher trails in reach of people who normally would have no business being there - namely, people who don't have enough skin in the game to make taking care a major concern. It also means that it is MUCH more feasible to rent a fleet of them out to anybody with a pulse, which puts a lot of people on the trails who treat them the same way some people treat hotel rooms and rental cars - "I paid to use it, I'm going to do whatever I want, and it's not mine anyway."

2) Little to no regulation. Yes, regulation can range from unnecessary to unwelcome to burdensome to tyrannical. However, regarding the subject at hand, in a lot of places you don't even need a license to operate a SXS on public roads. There are no muffler requirements or safety/courtesy courses. It's treated as a free-for-all in a monkey house, so is it really any surprise at all when you get a bunch of monkeys flinging shit everywhere?

 

My knot on my shoulder came from a parked side x side in the middle of a friggn single track. “Studying the rocks” to make sure they could make it over. Thankfully though they could use their arm to call for help, for me. I ride a place now where it’s dirt bike or 4wheeler only.

Note to self: maybe avoid Utah?

 

Go forth -- there is more than Moab.

Utah, but not Moab:



Even more Utah which isn't near Moab:



Looks like Moab, but it's not:

 

Maybe I'm a bit naïve in this regard, but I tend to find that those that like to stomp about and scream "This isn't fair" when new policies come about...

were usually part of the problem to begin with, or at very least weren't part of the solution.

Be respectful; this world's going to be around a lot longer than you, your SxS, your 4x4, or your feelings anyway.

Edit to say: OP - super half baked and misleading thread title, by the way.

 

no no stick to Moab!!

We do not need the other beautiful hidden Utah gems to be overtaken by crowds of idiots.
but if you are a respectful Tacoma driving off-roader who lives by the leave no trace ethos than come along, Utah has a lot to offer.

 

Good. F*ck SxSs. They're the f*cking bane of forest and desert (and city) roads everywhere.

Texas butts gonna be hurt tho.

 

Agreed, seeing the hundreds of RVs lining 191 heading into Moab, I'm glad they are there and not in other better kept spots, yet.

 

Seems like everything outdoors has been crowded due to the pandemic. A local jeep club got busted for ripping up a couple state forests.

 

Imo Your typical 4x4 is a glorified minivan can you even get a Subaru or Ford edge type thing capable of going where a utv can? And would you trust the 4x4 you can buy and then get off road ready for 20k as much as a new utv?