Ironman 4x4 Foam Cell Pro

Read both your comments here and on your thread, you're definitely way over-sprung, leaf springs in particular ride like shit if they're over-sprung, and as you've correctly noted you're so oversprung/lifted in the front that the shocks are way out of their proper range of travel. Between being oversprung and overlifted you're running with like no front suspension travel as the shock's probably basically completely topped out preventing almost any downtravel and the stiff springs prevent any uptravel.

This video is very informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpxGbSj0qzg&ab_channel=Ironman4x4Philippines

For the rear especially you want to be sprung for your *constant* load(meaning the load that you usually have at the rear of the truck), if your constant load is 200 pounds then 440-GVWR springs are entirely too stiff. Running a lighter rear spring doesn't mean you can't still load up to GVWR, the overloads are all sprung for a bit over GVWR, it means that you're running the correct load for how the truck is most of the time. My RTT means that I'm at 150 pounds in the rear minimum but I also usually keep some stuff in the bed so we're running about the same rear weight and Ironman's performance loads are perfect(which I understand is pretty much the constant pack with a leaf or two removed as you're planning to do).

On the flip side I've been oversprung in the front for a few months while waiting on an ARB Summit bar and a winch. It's clearly too firm and I can actually feel that on small bumps especially(big fast whoops off road still seem to load up the front enough to work right) my front suspension is doing basically nothing and just skittering over the bumps while my rear soaks up those same bumps. Bumper goes on in two weeks so I'll report here how the front rides in case anyone's interested.

TBH if I were you I'd probably stop throwing money at putting different front springs on your Ironman shocks and get a lift designed for 2wd trucks, keeping only the rear leaf pack with a leaf or two pulled out unless you get help from someone who really knows what they're doing to get it set up right.

What are you planning on doing with your truck? IMO Foxes and Kings are overkill for most people, you can get a nice riding shock without resis.

 

I shouldn’t assume that all work done is right even when done at a shop…
I’ve had my kit installed for over a year now. I had the shocks/springs put together at a local shop. Well, I had assumed that everything was right and didn’t notice anything odd. Well, while looking at different springs to put on I rewatched the IM coil build video. During the video Chris said that you don’t need to torque the top bolt, just tighten it till it stops and you’re hood to go. I looked at a pic of mine before installed and they we’re definitely not tightened all the way. I went out and fixed that today and got quite a bit of turns on one and a few on the other shock.
Just throwing this out there in case anyone else had their shocks built at a shop other than IM.

Now onto the springs I’ve been eyeing. I saw a set of Fox 3.0 for a really good deal but they are 13” while the IM are 15.15”. If I put those on, would I need to be concerned that the spring perch would only have a few threads showing above?
See the pic for both things, the top shows the strut tops not being fully tightened and the bottom shows about where the spring perch would be with 13” springs just set roughly where the spring seat would be… looking at it now, I think it’ll be too short to add any additional lift back.. might have to wait for 14” springs to pop up…


Edit- added before and after of the top nut.

 

I’d wait on the longer springs, King even has a 16” spring if I remember right. I’d try to stay as close to the original spring length as possible, especially since you’re going to have to adjust more to get your lift back.

 

Yeah, after measuring and thinking, I’d prefer to keep it as close as possible, so if I do decide this route, 15 or 16” springs.

 

I've watched that video, those guys have a few good ones like that.
I am interested in updates after you install your new stuff. I've thought about strapping a few bags of sand to my hood to see how much that weight would affect it.

I haven't actually bought any replacement springs, just researched a lot and I came to that same conclusion, better to just buy something properly suited for the task. In actuality I could technically just get stock replacement parts since I plan to ditch the lift all together.

I also ordered the performance rear leaf springs with my kit, so unless I got the wrong ones, I shouldn't be too over-sprung out back. I still want to pull a couple though.

I want a rebuildable shock, Fox and King have tons of support and are adaptable. If something changes on my truck in the future I can change the valving and maybe springs if needed and be good to go. I know there are rebuildable IFP shocks out there but most of that segment is moving towards remote reservoirs. While not entirely necessary, if that's what they've got then that's what they've got. If I'm going to spend the money on those then I may as well spend a little more and get the adjuster knobs too. That'll give me even more adaptability for changing from asphalt to dirt.

The trails out here aren't too crazy but they have their share of whoops and washboards and hard or soft ground. The only thing to do out in the desert is go fast.

 

If you went with a 16", when you adjust the perch up to get your lift back it might end up pretty close to where the original 15.15" springs are sitting. Depending on how much adjustment is needed to get it back to the height you want.

 

Will update! I'm excited, I added some beefier skids since getting the FCPs and that actually made a small but noticeable difference, if I imagine that multiplied by the heavier weight of the bumper/winch mounted further forward I think it'll smooth it out exactly as much as I'm after.

I'm already a lot happier with the Ironman's ride over stock, the only time it's worse is when you're on like a trail with a lot of golf-baseball sized rocks, particularly if they're embedded in the dirt and not loose, and patches of crappy pavement with similar small but sharp bumps, it's like the springs don't compress even a bit and I just skitter over top. Yeah it's still harsher everywhere else but the body movements are just so much better controlled and it doesn't get all wobbly and bouncy if you hit any sort of bump at speed.

Meh I have no interest in remote resis at all unless I was trying to actually like race. Yeah great they're rebuildable, but you have to do that every 30k if you use them hard, 60k if you don't best case. For my use and miles that means I'm pulling my shocks almost every year. Plus rebuilds look like a pain in the neck to not fuck up, Fox charges $125 each if you send them in to have it done right. No thanks. If you just want a basic lift something like OME Nitrochargers hold up pretty well and cost the same to just replace as the Fox's do to be rebuilt.

Not to keep meh-ing but, also disagree on the adjustment. Colin Chapman(founder of Lotus if you're not familiar) had an excellent quote: "Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong -- look what they can do to a Weber carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."

That is the one use case they make sense, still if you're not really flying and running through the whole travel often the resis aren't even doing anything because you aren't circulating the oil. I did a ton of research before pulling the trigger on my suspension and my takeaway was unless you're actually going desert racing IR shocks are a prime example of "I'll take the expenzsivest one because it must be the best" thinking. Like you'd need to manage to blow out OME Nitros or Bilstein 5100s every 30k for them to have the same running cost and headache factor.

 

Finally got my shocks I'm since placing the order in April

One question, do I need to adjust the lift from the prebuilt settings or is everyone satisfied with just throwing the coilovers in and calling it a day?

 

Great to hear. Really, each of us had different set ups but I would say throw them on how they’re assembled. If the drive is too harsh, lower some. If you got the 720lb springs you might not have any issues.
With the 827 and E rated tires, 3” setting was to harsh, at 2.5 is pretty good with no weight and my cv boot fins are not rubbing anymore. It’s pretty easy to lower them while on the truck if you have the tool.

 

I can rebuild them myself, I did my Mustang’s coil overs for years. So that can be tackled easily on a day off.

I am familiar with Chapman, and while I do appreciate his approach and theory, a compression adjuster knob is a far cry from a Weber carburetor.
He also said “Simplify, then make it lighter”. As far as suspension adjustments go, those knobs are about as simple as it gets. Ten clicks left makes it soft, ten clicks back right makes it firm, easy peasy.

All that being said, they are still super expensive and I don’t like that. I will have to keep doing more research. I always appreciate different perspectives.

 

Still, a day's a day and it's another thing to worry about and another day you're under the truck instead of out enjoying it.

I just am not convinced that recreational users get any real benefit out of remote reservoirs for the high price and added maintenance. On a purpose built off road racer they are excellent because the shock is constantly running through the stroke and you have the freedom to mount the res in an ideal location for oil flow and ventilation. Even if you're really tearing things up on dirt roads as a rec user it's really rare that you're fully stroking the suspension, for the most part the suspension's only going through less than half of the travel even at 60 on a potholed up road. A bunch of small and constant strokes heats the oil in the shock body but doesn't actually circulate it to the reservoir so you're essentially just running a normal 2.5" gas shock as far as heat dissipation goes. Also how efficiently you think those front reservoirs actually dissipate heat tucked in a poorly ventilated area next to a hot engine?

I mean, I get the appeal, there just aren't many options besides remote res shocks if you want something better performing than the basic OMEs or 5100s. Not sure what direction I would've gone if I hadn't found the Foam Cells at a nice mid point in price and performance along with better durability than either. Fox/Kings etc obviously do perform better in general vs basic OME or similar setups but I think most users would actually benefit more from similarly well tuned bigger-bore non-remote shocks. But, most people buy what they want and not what they need so the business case isn't there for that niche if your brand image is centered around racing.

And it's not that simple really. Lots of confirmation bias going on when people talk about how well their self-adjusted suspensions perform. Playing with a knob and feeling a difference is fun, but you're just messing with compression not the million other variables at play. Firming it up for the street will give the illusion of better handling but honestly the ideal off road setting probably isn't far off from the ideal on road setting.

 

I never found the rebuilding process unenjoyable, I also wasn't out every weekend with the Mustang nor am I out every weekend with my truck. I have other things to do in life as we all do I'm sure and can't always be out hitting the desert or whatever, and scheduled maintenance work is not an uncommon weekend plan to have. I enjoy working on my vehicles so it's never been wasted time in my view so, I'd say that argument really is subjective person to person.

I think you pretty much hit on what I was trying to say, or was thinking at least. Are the Fox and King setups overkill for the vast majority of users? Absolutely. I may only get the full potential out of them once or twice out on a trail run so do I really need them? Not at all. They do, however, have loads of tuneability and adjustability to really dial in the ride and settings someone might want. Like you said, if your brand image is centered around racing and people are buying, a business has little incentive to make many other options. Although Fox does have the 2.0 series coil overs and Non-Reservoir 2.5 coil overs, still on the expensive side for the 2.5 series.
The knob adjusters, I get that they're butt dyno tested and approved. I feel like I would really get them dialed in where I want them and then just forget they were there or have an on road setting and an off road setting. Worth an extra ~350$? Ehhhh, maybe maybe not.

The rebuilding, I guess I'm just used to it and wouldn't mind having the ability to do so if I wanted to. The remote reservoirs, I don't really care either way, most of those types of high performance shocks just have them now. Do I need "high performance" shocks? Clearly not.
I'm also rocking a Prerunner and most suspension systems are designed for the 4x4s and "may also fit on 2wd variants". As I've found with my Ironman4x4 nitro system, I'm WAY oversprung. I have considered the FCP kit as well but the springs are still the same and they gave no indication that swapping in different springs would be feasible or recommended when I contacted them.

I have been looking into Dobinsons coils and started looking at their shocks more as well. They do have the new IMS shocks that look promising, along with a good set of their coils, that may be the answer I've been after.
I got a little burnt on this last deal so I guess I was thinking "just buy the top of the line" so I wouldn't end up in the same situation again.





Also I'm sorry for kind of jacking the FCP thread guys!

 

I enjoy wrenching too, I have a beat to shit Range Rover Classic that gives me plenty to do in the garage. I mean I'm not out doing off road stuff every weekend but like all my other hobbies are outdoors-related and my truck still needs to work for the other things I like to do in life. I often take 5-6 day long trips and work remotely out of it and have aspirations to build out a camper that'd enable me to do that for weeks or months at a time so regular rebuilds were just out of the question. Like my FCPs have been on the truck since the beginning of May and I'm close to hitting 10k on them already with a lot of off pavement time.

To be fair you probably managed to pick the worst setup for your light front. Ironman springs definitely run on the firmer side to begin with. I'm not actually sure I'd even like one of their nitro setups. I almost think the reason their spring rates seem so high comparatively is that it plays to the Foam Cell's strengths, they have really cushiony dampening so you can probably get away with stiffer springs without as harsh a ride. Like my truck should ride like an ox cart with those springs up front and it really does not ride bad at all. Plus foam cell shocks are much lower pressure(like you can literally compress them by hand) so some of the spring rate might be designed to make up for the fact the shocks don't provide natural rebound as well. I'm sorta surprised they don't use different springs for the nitros.

Well, on the flip side it'll hurt a lot more if that doesn't work well either... Your problems aren't from the suspension being garbage, they're from the spring rates being completely wrong for your truck. That said, you actually might have better luck with the fancier desert racing shocks need em or not, a lot of people do 2wd builds(like your truck is literally called a Prerunner...) for romping in the desert. OME and Ironman stuff is much more overlandy and slow-speed wheeling focused that'll almost always be 4x4s. Honestly I bet the reason they were so clueless for your truck when you called was that they had never been asked that question before.

It's mostly been relevant! Might even save someone's ass if they were thinking about putting the setup you've got on a Prerunner.

 

I like how you separate the quote text, much more organized and clean looking.

I do put quite a few miles on my truck, almost 18,000 in 18 months. I’ve been told by some that’s still child’s play though .
Majority of those are road miles, because I don’t like going off road with my current setup, imagine that. I don’t do camping trips much anymore, bad knees for me and my wife has to sleep inclined.
That trailer sounds awesome, I’ve seen several good trailer builds on here.

If I only knew then what I know now. One of the Dobinsons reps I talked to said Ironman does have softer valving and that’s why they tend to use hefty springs.

If I bought a Fox or King setup and it still sucked I don’t know what I’d do, that would be horrible. I’m pretty interested in those Dobinsons now, cheaper and seem to be a happy medium. I’m inquiring about some more details. Even their MRR adjustable ones are decently priced comparatively.


I really hope this help somebody else out there!

 

Not a trailer! I want to do something like a GFC or Alu Cab Canopy camper with an interior setup that could be used as an office. I really don't mind working from a folding chair and table in the shade under my rtt in the summer but if I want to be able to do winter and fall trips I really need an easily deployable space that's heatable and sheltered from the elements.

Dobinson's is the one brand I sometimes wonder if I should have looked into. I mean I'm happy with what I have so whatever but they seem to be a lot like Ironman where you don't see their name pop up all the time like OME/Bil/Fox/King/Icon but when it does people usually seem pretty happy.

Hey I mean I know I've seen 2wd options on the crazy end when windowshopping stuff I'll never own like LSK.

here... https://www.lsksuspension.com/colle...oducts/05-tacoma-2wd-lift-spindle-bolt-on-kit

One can dream.

 

If anyone was interested or curious, the Foam Cells are said to be linear valved.

In the next few days, I’m going to set up a camera in the wheel well and go over speed bumps and curbs to see what the movement looks like and if the bump stops hit.
I’ve been interested in upgrading them but don’t know that I actually need them. I’ll post the video here if it makes it that far. It won’t be great quality, I only have my kids digital camera he hooks up to his bike lol.

 

Like a Flip-Pac! They’re a little tough to find though. I like the Alu Cab stuff.


I was looking into Dobinsons when I got my Ironman kit. At the time they didn’t have the IMS shocks available for the Tacoma though. So I was comparing their nitro gas to Ironman’s, and Ironman had a better deal

We don’t usually hear much about them in North America but from what I understand ARB/OME, Dobinsons and Ironman are the three big ones in Australia always duking it out.

The LSK stuff is way beyond what I’d want to do now. If it wasn’t my daily driver, then maybe

 

I’m looking forward to that, I really like seeing those videos.
I have an old action camera. If I can figure out how to mount it, it would be cool to see my suspension too.

 

Quick question on this. Lift is coming in soon, which tool are you referring to for adjusting the lift settings while on the truck? I’ll definitely pick that up.

 

Sorta! I actually would prefer the wedge form factor though. The space in a flippac would probably be nice but I love the literal instant setup and teardown with a wedge. Also as a year round camper in Oregon not needing to worry about drying out the tent would be wonderful. Plus it's like really hard to get all the snow off my RTT before putting it away when winter camping, a Flippac would just dump all that moisture into your bed.

Yup! Goes back to my point about the Fox/King/Icon etc stuff. Just seems to come with a lot of headaches and reliability compromises. OME/Ironman/Dobinsons stuff is designed to improve performance and take a beating long term.

Oh I know, just the only 2wd specific setup I remember seeing off the top of my head.