Replace steering rack? or rack guide?

Thanks for this important and vital information, can you just clarify what you mean here tho?

 

@prerunnerSD
I really think there’s more wrong with your truck than just the rack guide. I suggest doing the same thing in the final video that you posted. Pull the bellows boot back on the driver’s side and check for play. Earlier in a different post you said you can’t get the boot past the inner ball joint to verify that is where your play is coming from. If there is no movement on your rack, but still the same tie rod play shown in that post, then it can’t be anything else but the inner tie rod ends. If indeed your rack has play like in your last video, I suggest the works. New or remanufactured rack with inner and outer tie rod ends, along with mount bushings. Get it all, and your dollar will go farther than replacement of a single item, there is slop everywhere in your truck.

 

Sorry, typo. It should be:

If it is just a guide, it will be cheap and easy to fix.

 

Ok, We took another video… how does this look?



Does this mean I need a whole new rack or could it still be the rack guide? Mechanic didn’t have a 24mm socket to see if the cap was torqued to specs.

 

It still could be the rack guide, there’s nothing wrong with inspecting it as well to see which type you have. It’s not any good like it is! It could just need to be tightened. You literally have nothing at all to lose by checking it and replacing it, or just putting more spring tension on it. It’s cheap enough, I think I replaced mine when I overhauled my rack, but I can’t remember exactly. I just remember replacing the seals and o-rings. You still probably need a rack mount bushing kit if that fixes your play, as it’s moving around quite a bit.
https://youtu.be/r4Hhl225E8A

 

But the mechanic that I had yesterday didn't have a torque wrench nor did he have a 24mm hex socket (male) - I was hoping they could loosen it, inspect and then get it to specs while I was there but Firestone doesn't have a torque wrench at all in their garage??!

I have to get this 24mm socket by special order which I do have an order in for but it won't come for several days.

I'm actually kind of worried about driving like this: If it is a bad guide could this lead to a catastrophic failure?

What if something in the steering snaps and I loose control of my truck on the highway, is this even possible?

BTW I have new Bilstein 5100 front adjustable shocks. If I take this suspension lift out can I reuse these on a stock suspension setup? I'm tired of this lift and going to take it after I get this rack issue resolved.

 

Did the upgrade today, quick little job.

The design of the early rack guide certainly allowed the roller to move up and down as well, and wear. The rack obv has the room to move if the guide allows it.

On a quick shakedown after, the vibration has significantly reduced. However, when the front is in the air, I still have some play moving the front driver's wheel left to right.

I'm going to drive it a bit tomorrow and see. Perhaps the vibration from the worn guide roller caused wear in the rack

https://www.youtube.com/embed/sHy1U-fRATw

https://www.youtube.com/embed/HgG6jQRsfe4

 

Good for you! Was it hard to get the 24mm racket? I have mine on special order... Did you just have play and vibration or did you have any pop or clunk sound too when turning??

 

1. If a mechanic you went to doesn't have a torque wrench, find a different mechanic, lol. Seriously though. No exceptions.
2. They don't need a 24mm male piece, watch the video linked previously. Just go to home depot, buy a 5/8" coupling nut for $2, and bring it to the new shop you use.

 

I had vibration (15-20 and ~55-65) and also experienced popping/clunking occasionally, typically when in motion compressing the suspension while turning the wheels (like entering and exiting driveways)

 

Just like @coldaccord said, you don’t need the socket. You can use an extended nut like he suggested (and is in the video) or you could use a 5/8” bolt with a nut. Screw the nut all the way onto the bolt, and then you can use that as a double hex tool, and use a regular 15/16” socket. This will only work to tighten the cap, you’d need another nut on the 5/8” bolt and lock the two nuts together, or tack weld the nut to the bolt, to loosen the cap. Otherwise you’re 5/8” nut and bolt will simply unthread when trying to loosen the cap, depending on how tight the cap is. If a welder is available, then just tack two nuts together and use that. The extended nut is an easier way, but most shops should have access to bolts, so they could get by with something they already have in the shop (but never thought about using a nut and bolt as a double hex tool.)
If you can find a parts diagram of the steering rack assembly, the guide is pushing the rack teeth into mesh with the pinion (steering shaft) teeth. It’s the lash play between these two components that you are having the looseness in. I don’t think it’s unsafe to drive at this point, and I don’t think it can actually get loose enough to slip all the way, unless you are really putting it in a bind. I’ve never heard of a steering rack (mechanical) failure under normal circumstances, maybe in a wreck. You’re far more likely to lose a lower ball joint, which would also suck. Picture shows what I’m explaining with a bolt and two nuts. Also if you do replace the rack or take your steering shaft loose for any reason, don’t let the steering wheel turn while it’s unhooked. The clock spring behind the steering wheel needs to be centered, and when you install a different rack, it needs to be in the center position as well. If it’s out of alignment when you put it back together you will break the clock spring, then your airbag light will be on and your horn won’t work, along with any other wires that travel through the clock spring.

 

I would rebuild the rack at the same time as doing this.

 

Thanks for this bit of info. It makes a lot more sense. How can I be sure its the rack guide causing the clunk?? Could it just be bad rack & pinion bushings? I think the double nut on the screw is a super ingenious method btw and I opted for the items above and the coupling nut as displayed in Timmy's video.

Yet I am worried that I would mess the whole process up. I have experience with fluid changes but not something like this. Seems risky for a somewhat newbie.

There's a place here in Santa Barbara that specializes in Toyota's. I am going to have them look at it Friday.

What can I have them do to rule out if its just this rack guide that's bad or just out of specification or that I need to replace the whole rack and pinion assembly?
I know you guys will say if they don't understand this then they are not a good mechanic but I've asked around and nowadays it seems even places that specialize in Toyotas have never heard of checking this rack guide. Indeed it is somewhat of a nuanced thing and most places won't know how to rebuild them.

With your advice I could direct them in the right direction and have this mechanic rule out if its actually the rack guide that is off or if its something else entirely.
I Just personally don't want to mess this up as there is no guarantee this is causing the clunk...

 

You can also reuse the upgraded rack guide and parts in a new steering rack if you start with the rack guide first.

It was like 10 years ago that I was looking at a new/rebuilt rack but started with the rack guide first. It was too late, the inner seals in the rack had already started to go- once one that happens it’s replacement time. You can tell by fluid in the bellows on the tie rod ends. Everyone I talked to said rebuilt units came with the old rack guide so it was worth it to start with the new rack guide first.

I ended up getting a used oem rack (at the time said to be a better alternative than rebuilt and cheaper than new, may still be true now) and swapped the new style rack guide into the replacement, has worked great last 7 years.

 

Diagnosing noises can be tricky, but the first step is always a visual inspection, and fix the obvious problem first. Even if you do it yourself loosen the lock nut and tighten the cap to see if your play is reduced or eliminated. If you tighten it down and it still flops around, order another rack, with the upgraded bushing.

 

Thanks for this concise info..

 

Unfortunately the Toyota specialty shop I took it into Friday didn't want to get into checking the rack guide. Even though I brought in Timmy's video and his notes, also notes from you guys the shop said they were not familiar with that and didn't want to mess with it.

So as a last ditch effort I went out and purchased a crescent wrench and with the method Timmy mentioned I was able to take off the cap and guide nut. My truck does have the newer style rack guide. The torque wrench I borrowed was not very good and so I was forced to hand tighten it. I was able to take out the spring and pull out the guide with a magnet as mentioned. Visually everything looked normal.

I didn't have jacks that could get both wheels cleared off the ground (thanks to my lift) so I couldn't move the wheels freely back and fourth and get moly grease in there so I didn't attempt that. But I did definitely torque the guide down tighter and went for a test drive and the steering is tighter/stiffer but I can still hear the clunk as before.

Should I try doing this again with the front all the way jacked up or does it matter? Does what I did by tightening the spring and rack guide down rule out the clunk being caused by an issue with the rack guide?

 

It shouldn’t matter about the wheels being off the ground to tighten the guide. Increased steering effort is expected, and may be an indicator that your on the right track.
I hate to say it, but it’s still time to start over. Start with a visual inspection of loose components. Find out if your rack play is gone or not. Then move on to the next loose item, the mount bushings. After everything is declared tight and in tolerance, then you work your ass off on recreating the noise. Find out the exact conditions that have to be there in order for it to clunk. You should be able to make it clunk on demand. Then depending on if the truck has to be moving or not get someone to recreate the noise while you walk around looking for the loudest point. If it has to be moving, a shop with a set of chassis ears maybe your next stop.

 

So as before this is the main loose component that I can get a visual on and when I move the wheels side to side this rotates and has play.

This is the video from before:


I tried to show several local mechanics the clunk and they all point to the rack and pinion, with one guy suggesting the LCA bushings but I think his thing was just a random guess. When holding the inner tie rod there is play and movement in the rack as shown above.

These videos show the "slop" in my rack and pinion. BTW are my bushings bulging? My bushings seem visually ok.. I don't understand





I def see play in the side to side movements of the tire. I can even hear a distinctive clunk when I move my driver side tire side to side. Seems like this sound is coming from the rack assembly. If increased steering effort is to be expected after tightening that bolt how can this mean I'm on the right track. If I have the new style rack guide and the clunk does not change it seems like it didn't make any impact.

The clunk happens when I am turning left over small pot holes and I am also hearing it sometimes when initially accelerating from a totally stopped position.

Could this be the lower control arm bushings? Or would that be a different symptom.

I don't feel comfortable or capable changing out the bushings myself because it involves taking off the tie rods. If I pay to change out the bushings it may not resolve the problem and I'd just be out the cost of the labor.

Heading into the fall & The ghost hunt continues:

I wish I had known about the chassis ears earlier! They are only around $100 and seem like an awesome way to isolate the source of a clunk.

This does feel like chasing ghosts and the chassis ears totally look like fun 80's ghost hunting equipment

 

I’m not really sure what to tell you at this point. I’ve personally never used a set of wireless chassis ears like you have pictured. The ones I used were wired, and they are still a “best guess”. You tune to the clip that you hear the noise the loudest, and go from there. If your rack still has play after tightening up the guide I’d probably replace it and the tie rod ends and mount bushings. It’s hard to tell in your videos, but yes, your bushings appear to be swollen, and very loose and squishy. Look at where they make contact, shiny metal means movement is taking place. I’d definitely try a set of urethane rack bushings.
Its really hard to tell without being there with the truck an hearing the noise myself. It actually could be coming from any point, as basically every joint is moving when you described it happening. Including the sway bar and links.
So, here’s the deal with most shops. They diagnose it as a rack, you agree that they replace it along with tie rod ends and a set of mount bushings and alignment at whatever price they quote you. This may include using the parts that the shop wants to install. If they are wrong, and the noise is still there, they are actually responsible to make it right. They will probably have you pay for whatever part is bad, and install it for free. Just another option, but you have to get their diagnosis in writing. If you show up with the parts and tell them to install them, they are not liable for anything, because they simply did what you told them to. I know that’s being shitty, but it happens every day. You have to start with the obvious loose parts, just like chasing an oil leak, gravity pulls the oil down, so you start at the top and work your way down.