FUEL PUMP RFI ( ham radio related)

Im gonna fire up the smaller SA tonight and run more tests.

Most oscillation I’ve come across is usually a “ birdie” or dead carrier that on the analog receiving you can hear some chirps.


now I just did speak to the Service Manager at my local
Dealer, who obviously has never heard of this. He is going to reach out to the Corporate Field rep , who is not aloud to have any interaction with customers. So I asked if I can not show you/them the interference, and show it to you on a SA, how can they even troubleshoot.

and as expected, the round about answer was if it’s not factory installed , it’s not their problem. It was almost suggested to just file the complaint with the FCC, which I do not want to jump to , as I’m willing to give them an opportunity to look into without having to tie up Federal authorities on a documented complaint……….

It’s almost not even worth the aggravation at this point ( that’s what corporations love to do to get rid of you) if this is how they are going to handle it , but on the other hand, I’m now even more determined…

 

haha thats an awesome story. Wish I was around when they flew!

So the link posted in one of the first few pages isnt a 3rd gen pump then? Only two wires, red and blk.
https://twstatic.net/attachments/8e220bb6-f461-4a51-a0a2-84bafed577a3-jpg.4174095/

 

I rewatched the last "unplugged" video. I think I misunderstood originally. I thought you were showing there IS still noise when unplugged. You were showing there was NO 14MHz noise when the pump was disconnected from the ECU but yet the ECU was still powered. Do I have that right? If so the oscillator theory is losing traction.

I think the best thing to do at this point is understand the lower freq spectrum as I think you are going to try to capture tonight with a video.

Did using your iphone in mono audio record mode fix the first 10sec diminished audio per the link i included a while back?
From what I gather it is an apple bug but a workaround is not recording in stereo (which is probably the default).

 

I'm curious if anyone else has seen this issue on their truck, seems like an extreme amount of RFI to be that severe across multiple bands. Someone else must have noticed it

I'll try to take some measurements with my nano vna...but that won't be until I get home in a few weeks

I also have Rfi issues, but on 2M and nowhere near that level. I haven't tried mobile HF

 

Correct. 3rd generation adds the "fuel pump ECU" and a different fuel pump.

 

I checked with a shitty RTL-SDR, didn't see anything on my truck. But, that was also with a bad antenna.

 

Not sure how much worse the interference you are getting was in comparison to what I experienced when setting my new 2021 up a few months ago, but after going straight to battery ground and positive I'm much happier with my whole setup as far as DC interference goes.

I haven't read all 11 pages of this post, but are you powered and grounded straight to the battery?

 

Yep - He is. He also experiences the RFI when connected to a standalone portable battery pack.

 

Ah........

I have been doing HF CW ham radio contests for more than 25 years.

I have operated the Florida QSO party mobile for many years. For several years I never had a problem making 2000 Qs in that contest over the weekend. That was in my 2004 taco. Then I traded the 2004 in and got a 2017.

It is the worst RFI spewer I've ever had. I tried to eliminate it for a few years but finally gave up. Last time I did the FQP me and my op partner quit half way. Noise is S7 on HF straight into antenna whenever the truck is running. Torroids, separate battery, grounding everything, grounding nothing..... nothing worked. I tried several rigs, 590, 7000. I use ham sticks mounted on a massive 2'x3' Al plate bolted to the roof rack on my topper. LMR coax. I ran counterpoise wires around the roof rack. When the truck is off, it's a pileup buster. When it's running, I can't hear shit unless it's S7 or more.

I'll be following for further developments. I'm surprised there aren't more complaints about how bad this problem is.

 

Ok, my SA doesn’t show anything below 1mhz so it’s either to far out of range or it’s not pegging there but here it is showing the individual spikes . If I extend out my range for more bandwidth, I really lose resolution but you can clearly see where it starts to drop off on the lower end of the RFI. I’ll have to do it again but shift my upper limits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOBg5kZ43yA

 

I can tell you when the dealer says " its not factory installed, its not our problem" That's WHY there isn't more complaints.


Every Ham who deals with this should bombard the FCC with complaints and let them hammer Toyota.

I even mentioned to the dealer's Service Manager that GM and Ford have TSB's about it on their vehicles, and GM has options for RFI shielded fuel pumps... There was a brief moment where I heard nothing but Crickets........

 

Yeah. I have little faith that the FCC or toyota will do anything.

K0BG also has lots of good info on mobile installs. I've used it frequently.

http://www.k0bg.com/rfi.html


N4GI

 

Also, ham radio operators are certainly a small subset of owners. I would have never have known about this if it wasn't for this thread. I wouldn't have paid any interest in this thread if I wasn't an EE.

 

This is true. Power companies have always been responsive to line noise complaints. However line noise means power companies are losing transmission/distribution efficiency. Which equals money......

 

I am assuming what you are showing is signal (noise) strength on the y axis and frequency on the x axis.
From the numbers below the graph it looks like x axis starts at 7MHz!!! and ends at 15MHz and the "1MHz/" means 1MHz per grid line?
Is this correct?

I think you are seeing constant noise level at about 10MHz and above. It does not look like a harmonic distribution to me.
You'd see the fundamental at the 1st offending frequency (I think you said Khz range it is too low for equipment to see it) and then multiples of that freq the higher you go, but at a significantly reduced strength.
I doubt the PWM is at 10MHz and we still know nothing about below 7MHz.

Am i correct the strength of the noise above 10MHz is the same strength as what you have been looking at at 14MHz?
Makes no sense to me. We may not be getting enough info due to limitations of measuring equipment, as I think you mentioned.
No guesses as to what is going on.

Edit: the audio in the first 10 secs of the video does not seem diminished.

 

I did check lower and I don’t have any resonant antennas that low for the truck. It has a sharp rise right where you see the repeating humps and starts to taper off as it gets higher in frequency until it eventually disappears.
It’s very similar to the RFI I get at home from my neighbors koi pond pump. Every 20 kc there is a spike.

thats when I switched to the telescoping and went right under the fuel tank. As I walk away from the vehicle or sweep the frame and move away from the tank, the signal dissipates. But yes, if you watch the frequency flash at the top and watch the marker jump around, it’s showing the frequencies that have the highest amplitude.

 

this is what the fish pond next door does to the home station.. I’m showing it on 160 meters as any of the other bands would be jammed packed with signals and it would be hard to differentiate between the interference and actual transmitted signals.
The blue squiggly lines is what you are looking at.

Its basically the exact same type of RFI, PWM pump that it’s flow rate is changed by a controller.


*** I added 80 and 40 meters so you can see the resemblance***

 

So what I believe is being seen on the Taco, is artifact being generated from the fuel pump motor, Not so much the signal feeding it.

 

I've always been suspicious of the coil packs as well.

 

That was an issue when the antenna was originally on the fender. In conjunction with the FP trash as well.

I did put some ferries on each harness for the coil packs and the cam sensors and that helped with the “ignition” noise. It still pops up a bit above certain RPM, but that’s to be expected when the pulse gets outside of the noise blanker range.