Red Bullet VVTi Solenoids GB (Primary GB CLOSED)

You could very well be right, but I have a feeling you don't know if you are right or why you are right.

I agree with the sentiment that an OEM doesn't put high dollar expensive parts in when less money will get the job done. And that matters more in some cases than others. I mean, if we learned they reused a throttle body from a 4 cyl vehicle because it was cheap, and it was a known choke point in the intake tract, then yeah, upgrade to something better and "allow" the engine to develop more HP.

But in this case we are talking about the actuator mechanism (not the actual cam gear mechanism or the electrical signals controlling it) that causes the intake cam to change valve timing with respect to crank angle. And nobody has been able to explain how this solenoid works from factory, when in the rpm band it has impact on power, and when it is at "max", and thus nobody knows why or how the aftermarket one does it differently and if that is actually uncorking anything. Remember, we aren't opening the valve farther, or longer. Only changing the timing of intake valve events with respect to piston position, and only different at some combination of load/rpm. And I'm not saying that changing cam angle isn't beneficial, we all know it is for many decades, starting with V-tec

Generic statements that Toyota is cheap and high dollar aftermarket will help to remove 'choke' is better - is not very technically useful in the argument for or against this particular product.

I don't claim to know what is going on here either, I'm not a VVTI expert, but so far nobody has made any technically legit arguments "why" or exactly "how" these will be better. I am no authority on engine theory, but I do have a decent grasp on camshaft theory, and have ordered custom camshafts for custom one of a kind race engines, have studied and compared hundreds of cam cards and dyno charts, I understand some cam lingo like LSA, overlap, duration (advertised and @ .050") and the changes of advancing or retarding cam has on an engine. Even if I still don't understand it fully, I would believe repeatable dyno charts showing results with holding all variables the same other than a component change, and would buy in on that alone.

Please don't take my response as a personal attack. It isn't. Just trying to explain my thought process and see if there are others out there thinking the same. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

 

@racebug68 taken directly from their webpage.

 

@racebug68 i agree with your thought process and the cost to profit statement.

my additional thought is when did Toyota invent these particular devices and has manufacturing tech or materials improved since then, probably. Maybe 20 years ago they were the best they could do in mass quantity?

I’m not good with truck money so I stop asking and just pull out the wallet especially after install instructions were simple !!!

 

so do i buy two sets or do i buy two sets?

 

Awesome, I dunno how I missed that in my investigation, but this is in line with what I was looking for. Thanks!

So I guess they are claiming, that the stock solenoid is lazy, the engines are accelerating at a high rate, and thus outpacing the computer's command and solenoid's oil flow ability, whereby the actual cam timing is at one position, but that was commanded by the computer so many RPMs earlier that it doesn't actually reflect the way it should be timed at the actual rpm the engine is now at. Like the cam timing is behind compared to commanded timing and the actual engine needs. This would ONLY help you when rpms are climbing, the faster they climb the more it helps... but if stuck on a long steep hill at altitude, buried the throttle but the truck won't go any faster, or is infact losing RPM, the solenoid will not help anymore cause the computer and the solenoid have had ample time to catch up to the engines needs for cam timing. Anyone disagree? I would say that it won't help HP/torque at a steady state RPM, only when the engine rpms are increasing.

I suppose that makes sense on engines that are accelerating very quickly (advantage supercharger here), or having worn and sticky or restricted solenoids or just plain slow, which is hard to quantify but potentially many of us.

Now I'm actually thinking this could be worthwhile to try out.

Will we have time to sign up for the group buy after the pricing is announced, I hope?

Thanks again!

 

Red Bullet and Quantum are 99.9999% identical from what I derived.

1 truck single vvti = 1x pair of solenoids (L/R solenoids )

 

Yep one set for my Tacoma and one set for my 4runner.

 

Yes you will.

 

@Lucario Runner your T4R....is it the 4.7 V8?

 

Lol
Sure but you don't question how the light switch works you just know it works. Unless you need to know..... Which I don't see why I could probably learn and store other information in my brain that would probably be more useful. I'll take people's word for it from the research.

 

I wonder if you question how a bidet works

 

na. 1gr

 

Well, I see you took some amount of offense to what I intended to be an objective post. Oh well, I can't control how you feel. Sorry. I was simply trying to derive understanding from facts about how this product would benefit us, while leaving opinion statements out.

I think I did that, and I think the understanding that these solenoids will ONLY have positive impact to power output when RPMs are climbing rapidly, and will not not boost HP in any way at a steady RPM is a KEY point that I don't think was mentioned already or well understood by most. That is good information to have in this thread.

I do want to know how and why things are the way they are. I don't enjoy spending money for features or benefits that aren't tangible and quantified. I'll leave the childish response to your posts out of the conversation. Thanks.

 

Naw, it's the interwebs.

 

Random mini rant:

It's always a good thing to question the world around you and how things work. It's a bullshit filter and there's definitely enough BS floating around in the world.

That said, I often just trust that something works unless already have or really want to gain a deeper understanding on the topic.

Everybody has been stung by a shit product at some point in their life.

 

@racebug68 and all.

I'm also trying to educate myself on the how/when/why these Red Bullet solenoids are different from the stock ones.

Found this for the Toyota 2UZFE 4.7L V8 engine that probably also pertains to the 1GRFE. Not sure if this is old info, but makes for a good read on the stock solenoid.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/73-engine-vvt-i-system-pdf.854917/&ved=2ahUKEwi927X4z4HzAhUrJTQIHVkoCCkQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Zyb0uY5JGsUi8lhY5_rR9

 

Thanks for that! I believe it confirms what I said earlier and adds to the knowledge. I learned that the solenoids control advance of the cam as well, so the 'neutral state' is mid rpm and medium load, for idle and light load the cam is advanced, and then high rpm/load the cam is retarded. If you are having issues with idle and drivability, could be due to the solenoid being sticky in the advance direction causing drivability issues at low to medium speeds/loads. Do we know if the 1GR has camshaft degree sensors? I would assume it does now, although I previously thought it didn't. Don't know why I assumed it was a more simplistic engine with base and retard intake cam settings...

But since the computer is in a feedback loop with command vs actual, the new solenoids will neither change the total amount of cam timing, nor have any effect at steady state RPM. There may be gains during acceleration, stop lights, or freeway on ramps.... if the acceleration rate of the engine is faster than the solenoid can supply oil to achieve the commanded amount of VVTi movement, which is very difficult to quantify. But for sure no gains on a long steep hill that would prevent the truck from downshifting to maintain speed.

 

F it, I'm in too.

 

1GR has camshaft position sensors. Degree would be determined by location of the stock cam.

 

This is the way.