The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

I've talked to several that don't like the look of pods at all and I usually try to convince people function>form. Most the time I am successful, but there are those that choose the OEM LED fogs or KC G4s for a more stock-like look. Agreed that is less common in the Tacoma community for sure, it doesn't get you the same instagram overland points.

Sure thing, if you want to send one my way I can include it in a comparison. PM me.

 

I clicked on an instagram ad (as one does) for these. The company Denali Electronics purports that they have fog and driving beams that are SAE/ECE compliant. They mention vehicle specific kits but I briefly browsed and couldn't find them. More info here: Denali Electronics

 

When you name your light company after a GM package......

 

Or the highest mountain (formerly known as McKinley) in North America or the National Park named for that mountain...

 

Interesting find! I see the Wrangler/Gladiator fit kits right below the lights on the page you linked and they show them installed in Tacoma fogs at the bottom. Also interesting, these are the first I've seen offered in 3 colors; white, selective yellow and amber. Although they offer the SAE driving lights in 3 colors as well, but only white will meet SAE J581. The do look to be high power with a rating at 40w, which (if an accurate stable rating) is just slightly higher than the SS3 Pro/Max. Looks like these are due out mid-oct. I'll see if I can get some in advance.

 

Cool to see them using a cree xp-p LED. Its one I discussed a bit with speculation about DDs new offerings. From testing online (for flashlight modders) it appears to have a pretty similar current limit to the smaller, (also) 1mm^2 die cslnm1.tg LED, although the die is slightly larger (1.05×1.05mm) so intensity is lower. The 2mm^2 die osram that DD uses l, the CULPM1.tg offers a much higher maximum drive level, around 8A if given sufficient heatsinking. Sticking with a 3.5x3.5mm footprint will probably allow them to change the emitter they use over time, if Cree rolls out different, higher performing emitters.

 

Yeah some interesting claims about using asymmetrical optics to max out intensity values for J583 standards.

I wonder if around 40W you just sort of run out of heat capacity for the 3 inch pod size (and still be able to fit it into tight applications like fog pockets).

I myself am in the process of swapping to SS3 maxes and would hate to have to chase a NEW NEW again

 

Probably, without using materials with higher mass, like copper, for much of the light. Surface area can increase with fins/ribs/spines, like DD has done, but this adds cost and complexity, as well as begins to place some limitations on where you could fit the pod. Given that they seem to be advertising towards the motorcycle market, and the pics they show of vehicle mounts is them mounted externally on brushbars, it seems they recognize the need to maximize airflow.

Their blank plastic "reflector" buckets for the 4 led fog arrangement are interesting. Acting as a spacer, while concealing the internal electronics.

 

Or that!

 

Good luck with that. @crashnburn80 does a wonderful job of spending my disposable income. I've probably bought 6 pairs of lights (and dozens of bulbs) based on his recommendations. Am I happy? Oh yea. The wife? Probably not so much.

 

Say what? Poor McKinley lost his mountain???

Next, you'll be telling me that Pluto isn't a planet!

 

Very interesting. I'm surprised to say I haven't heard of Denali. The product looks very solid overall. Just some thoughts though, take it for what you will with my obvious bias:

40 watts is almost certainly not going to be the stable output level, as the Cree XP-P is a 10W chip. I see in the description that they say "36-watt" so I would assume it's going to pull 40W at start then level off to around 36 watt, just like the SS3 Pro and Max. That's about the most you'll get out of a housing of this size without some kind of active cooling.

The Driving pod claims 1050 feet at 1 lux. This would mean 105,000 candela. OK for ECE (112500 candela) but that exceeds the maximum requirement of 75,000 for SAE Driving lights. Hmm.

The fog claims 450 feet at 1 lux. That would put the fog at 18,800 candela, on-par with the SS3 max. This makes me raise my eyebrow a bit, because they are using a single "far-field" lens, rather than a TIR - there's a lot of light being lost in the housing. I have to assume that to achieve those numbers, it's less wide, perhaps 60-70 degrees.

The intensity also presents serious challenges in compliance - the Max had to be intentionally designed to squeeze past regulations. ECE regulations call for a maximum of 14,400 candela, with a very narrow pattern - which is why the SS3 Max is rated to the SAE F and not F3. It doesn't seem possible to me to place 18,000 candela inside of the ECE pattern requirements. I see that they do advertise "barely legal" for these, and they talk about the asymmetric lenses to achieve that - but they've also marked these as "SAE J581" rather than including the required F or F3 marking, so I'm not entirely convinced on the compliance side of things.

The spot claims 1 lux at 1910 feet. This translates to 338,000 candela, and that's with three chips, not four. That may be possible if it's an extremely tight pattern, around 3 degrees. With the size of the TIR optics, which determines the tightest angle possible, it's hard to believe. I suppose it might be possible with that XP-P chip. In any case, the practicality of a 3-degree spot is questionable. The SS3 Max is 6 degrees, which is already super tight. Most spots are 8-12 degrees.

I could be totally wrong. It is clear that a lot of work went into these. Probably best to just get a few of these, throw them on the goniometer, and see if the numbers are matching up!

Definitely a nice new chip. We tested it recently, and we tested the CSLNM1.TG during SS3 development. That tiny of an emitter didn't provide the results we were looking for compared to the other chips we are using. At some point, you just don't really need a spot light to be a laser beam shining with a 3 degree spread, and we were already getting far higher output numbers with the ZES, XPL HI, and of course the Boost HX. Also keep in mind - the 6000K color temp really limits what you can do with selective yellow, which is a big reason we stick with ZES and XPL. It's great to see more companies with the high-intensity emitters, but I think the Boost HX is still the best balance between raw power and emitter size. When Osram or Cree can make a 1mm^2 20W chip in 4000K, now we're talking.

Paul

 

Before I make the purchase I want to confirm that the DD SS3s sports will NOT be warm enough to prevent/melt snow/ice

I need the pros?

 

Pro or the Max. Selective yellow will also have a hotter lens temp and be more effective in poor weather conditions.

 

Perfect that is the plan! I’ll be placing an order soon.

Just Placed the order thank you!

 

Thank you!
I will be going selective yellow for the poor weather.

 

Timeline says fall, so that would seem like very soon!

Note that dual beam optics are complex. Reflector headlights with dual filament bulbs can have dual beams but these are highly engineered optics and part of the dual beam is to use a non-shielded high beam filament allowing the light source to strike the reflectors beneath the bulb that are shielded by the low beam bulb shield. Or, in a projector, the cut off shield is lifted to allow light above the cut off for high beam. But both these high/low are headlight patterns. To go from a short/wide fog pattern with cut offs to a long/focused driving pattern in one assembly wouldn’t be practically feasible as the optics would share nothing in common and have to be entirely independent, unlike the high/low headlight patterns.

 

This was a fun exercise, and I'm not sure anyone has done the deliberately wrong things I'm doing here. But, while I'm swapping lights and their bezels around, I decided to demo some different combinations. These images aren't exposure locked from one to the other, as my phone doesn't have native manual controls. But each compares two lamps at once, and the images are pretty close to what my eyes saw.

First up, a stock yellow SS3 Max on top with a stock yellow SS3 Pro on the bottom. The two colors seem to be a pretty close match, and the difference in the pattern is apparent. The Max is definitely more intense and defined.


Next up is the same yellow Pro fog light on the bottom, but the darker yellow Max optic installed on a Pro lamp above. The light is definitely more "amber" colored as you can clearly see, and I think it must have a drop in intensity as well.



Finally, we have two SS3 Max lamps. The top pattern is the proper one, and it looks properly yellow as it should- nearly the same golden yellow that we're looking for (though they look different from one photo to the next because again, no exposure lock). The bottom is a lighter Pro optic installed in a Max lamp, and the result is a very pale, highlighter hyper greenish yellow.



These are just for fun. It shows that DD really spent time dialing in the color for these Max lamps. I don't recommend actually using these as I did in this mockup, as they're likely non-compliant and frankly impractical (I don't think you can even order the Max yellow fog optic separately from the Max lamps, so you'd be spending a lot of money to do something dumb like this).

My Pro lamps are eventually going to be repurposed as cornering lights, and the Maxes are going to adopt the bezels and fog bucket mounts from them. Looking forward to being able to dial these in and stretch the fog pattern further out!

Edit: also forgot to add a note about warmup. The Max lamp definitely ramped temperature a lot faster than the Pro. I didn't let them stay on too long, and for subsequent tests I wasn't really paying attention due to heatsoak etc. But the first two stock lamps were switched on at the same time. The Pro slowly got temperature up, but the Max was WARM almost immediately and on its way to hot before I switched them both off.

 

The difference with using the other lens is wild.

To my eyes the MAX SS3's was something like 5-10% on the green side as shown.

I feel as though unless you are able to have a direct comparison like this most people would hardly notice a difference.